Walther LGV-Spezial Junior - woodwork help needed.

[zooma]

I have a really good Walther LGV-Spezial Junior that has a nice well figured walnut stock, but it has a hairline crack running all the way around the grip - just behind the trigger.

This hairline crack will open up a little all the way around when gently coaxed and seems to suggest that the factory fitted wooden strengthening dowel has shrunken away from inside the walnut stock in this area.

The dowel seems to be intact - but now a loose fit inside the stock in this area - but still good and tight where visible at the top where the end can be seen in the usual place just behind the cylinder.

At this moment the crack still closes up tight ( unless provoked a little) but it is obvioulsy fractured all the way through and so does need a repair to keep it together for the future. The crack is a very close fit that cannot be opened up very much at this moment, so it will be quite difficult to make enough space to inject the adhesive

The crack is so fine when closed that it is barely visible, so I am asking if anyone can suggest a good strong and permanent adhesive that will creep around inside the fracture that I can then clamp together when drying to leave an invisible repair.

I have some reluctance (cowardice) to get stuck in until I have researched all the options as I have been told there is absolutely no chance of finding a new replacement, and so I do have some reservations about tackling it if there is a real expert out there that can make an invisible but permanent and strong repair.

[air-tech]

You are lucky, your gun is an ideal candidate for an invisible repair.

Most PVA adhesives will create a bond that is stronger than the wood itself, but no doubt someone may also suggest alternatives that may be even better.

The "hot tip" is - pre-clamp (practice) as clamping a gun is always going to be awkward. Only when you have rehearsed the drill should you "go for glue".

No need for any extraordinarly pressure (which may distort) - as long as the gap is closing perfectly then you are good to go. I could even imagine the gun perhaps inverted in a vice retained by the butt cheekpiece area and the very weight of it closing the gap, or perhaps supported at muzzle and buttpad (right way up). You will have to find what works for the damage you have.

Not to worry about injecting the glue, some have useful applicator nozzles (evo-stik wood glue) but basically apply the pressure with the nozzle to the crack, and then "work" the crack open and closed so the glue will creep. Do it a few times and the glue will have gone where it should.

Once clamped or otherwise, wipe off the excess glue that is squeezed out and let it be for at least a day!

[benchstop]

Difficult to say without seeing it, to be honest. I've never used this (although I have a bottle in the workshop) 'Veritas Chair Doctor Glue'. Google it and have a read. If it were mine I'd be inclined to drill out the dowel, tweak it open a bit more, work in some titebond or decent PVA, clamp it and re-dowel.

regards Mike

[18 Wheeler]

Contact BBS member Alan Knight, (Username Knight Guitars).

He'll do a proper job.

[Lakey]

On areas of stock with a rounded profile, I have successfully used lengths of car innertube. If you stretch the rubber strip around the mend, finally anchoring with insulation tape wrapped around the rubber, you will find that as the rubber trys to shrink back to normal size,and strong 360 degree even pressure is exerted onto the mend.

That was a tip given to me by an old gunmaker who used to repair a few broken stocks, so I guess he know what he was taking about.

Good luck with the repair


Lakey

[zooma]

Thanks for your tips and thoughts about making this repair.

I also thought PVA was probably the way to go as being waterbased I could wipe all of the excess away from the checker when still wet to keep the repaired joint invisible.

But I would still have a gap inside where I suspect the dowel has shrunken away from the walnut and I have heard of a "PVA" type of glue that actually expands into small gaps and did wonder if I could find out the name of this stuff and see how well it worked on a test piece first.

The other option I am considering is to make the repair with PVA and clamp it until dry, and then drill out the old dowel and fit another new one with PVA to remove any "void" or open aeras inside as these would be a weak point. The problem with this idea is that I would need to find some suitable hardwood dowel to do this - not something I expect to be able to find in our local B&Q.

Yet another option would be to use a stainless threaded stud as the dowel - but this time held in with an epoxy resin like Araldite - to give a stronger inner core. Then I would have to cap the ends with a suitable wood so the studding remained invisible and the caps looked like the end of the dowel does now.

[air-tech]

Query - if there is a dowel, it came in from somewhere!

Perhaps from the inletting, unless there is some form of cap on the pistol grip? If so you could do whatever you wished, take out the old, re-fit with glue, etc, etc.

Sorry not familar with your particular gun, if I'm talking bollocks.

Thanks for your tips and thoughts about making this repair.

I also thought PVA was probably the way to go as being waterbased I could wipe all of the excess away from the checker when still wet to keep the repaired joint invisible.

But I would still have a gap inside where I suspect the dowel has shrunken away from the walnut and I have heard of a "PVA" type of glue that actually expands into small gaps and did wonder if I could find out the name of this stuff and see how well it worked on a test piece first.

The other option I am considering is to make the repair with PVA and clamp it until dry, and then drill out the old dowel and fit another new one with PVA to remove any "void" or open aeras inside as these would be a weak point. The problem with this idea is that I would need to find some suitable hardwood dowel to do this - not something I expect to be able to find in our local B&Q.

Yet another option would be to use a stainless threaded stud as the dowel - but this time held in with an epoxy resin like Araldite - to give a stronger inner core. Then I would have to cap the ends with a suitable wood so the studding remained invisible and the caps looked like the end of the dowel does now.

[zooma]

Query - if there is a dowel, it came in from somewhere!

Perhaps from the inletting, unless there is some form of cap on the pistol grip? If so you could do whatever you wished, take out the old, re-fit with glue, etc, etc.

Sorry not familar with your particular gun, if I'm talking bollocks.

Hi air-tech,

The dowel was factory inserted on all of these LGV-Spezial Junior models from the top just behind the air cylinder, and the end of the dowel was then shaped into the stock and included in the original finish.

This then looked like an inserted disk and is still a very tight (perfect) fit where it can be seen. If it was this good inside then I doubt it would have ever failed, and if it was at all loose in the top half of the stock then I could extract it and replace it as I re-glued the cracked section to maintain the original details.

If I knew the angle the factory fitted the dowel at, then I would just drill it out ( something I may have to do in any case), but I am hoping to make an invisible joint to preserve the original details as this is quite a rare and collectable model.

I want to make a repair that will retain the original look to keep the model desirable, but also strong enough for me to use every day that I get the chance to shoot it.

[DCL_dave]

Hi,

I wouldn't use expanding PVA wood glue!...it might expand the crack slighty and will then show as a yellow line when cured...just use normal white PVA wood glue (thinned down with water if necessary) and a syringe to force it in until it comes out all around the crack, if there is a slight void around the dowel inside then it should find it's way in there too.

[air-tech]

Hi air-tech,

The dowel was factory inserted on all of these LGV-Spezial Junior models from the top just behind the air cylinder, and the end of the dowel was then shaped into the stock and included in the original finish.

This then looked like an inserted disk and is still a very tight (perfect) fit where it can be seen. If it was this good inside then I doubt it would have ever failed, and if it was at all loose in the top half of the stock then I could extract it and replace it as I re-glued the cracked section to maintain the original details.

If I knew the angle the factory fitted the dowel at, then I would just drill it out ( something I may have to do in any case), but I am hoping to make an invisible joint to preserve the original details as this is quite a rare and collectable model.

I want to make a repair that will retain the original look to keep the model desirable, but also strong enough for me to use every day that I get the chance to shoot it.

Thanks for the info, interesting.

[zooma]

Hi,

I wouldn't use expanding PVA wood glue!...it might expand the crack slighty and will then show as a yellow line when cured...just use normal white PVA wood glue (thinned down with water if necessary) and a syringe to force it in until it comes out all around the crack, if there is a slight void around the dowel inside then it should find it's way in there too.

Hi Dave,

Your idea is the least work - and therefore the most tempting!

I may try this first to see if I can get away with it - if not then it looks like a new dowel (wood or stainless studding) and the required re-finishing needed to hide the new dowel insertion.

I will refinish the stock in any case once the repair is completed to look as good as the metalwork that I am sending to MAG for a new coat of blue.

If all goes well this will be a really beautiful looking Junior!

[Dave S]

+1 on the innertubes, though I tend to use cycle ones, they are a bit thinner so wrap nicer, and stretch a bit more.
If it comes to drilling out the old dowel could you try from the other end, or give it a nice swift wack to ccrack it off completely, then drill for a new dowel as required.
Would take some guts to do that tho...

Dave

[zooma]

I finally decided what to do and used waterproof PVA to make the repair.

As I tried to open the crack around the grip some of the PVA was put into the split. I used a small syringe, but as much would have been wiped into the joint with the index finger as went in from the syringe as the gap would not open wide enough to get a good amount of glue into the joint.

The stock was left clamped overnight (even though it says the bond is made in 5 - 10 minutes) and this morning the clamp has been removed.

I think only a tiny amount of PVA was actually taken into the hairline crack as I could not open it up very much, so I am hoping it was enough, although I am sure not enough PVA went into the joint to reach the dowel inside.

There is no more "movement" in the stock, so I will wait another 24 hours before shooting the rifle and see if this small repair has worked - if not I will wait for it to get worse so I have more space to inject more adhesive next time amd maybe accept that I need to fit a new dowel.

If the stock should ever break open, I actually think the repair would be easier to make.

It is surprising how much movement could be felt in the stock before the repair was made, so tomorrow I will find out how good the joint has been bonded and if it remains solid.

[zooma]

Well I have put about 50 rounds through the Junior now and it is still in one piece.....despite the tiny amount of Resin W Waterproof that must have ended up in the split!

Fingers crossed for now - and the repair is invisible - but I just can't see this being the end of the story - not enough glue taken into the joint is bothering me!