Finally got the chance to use my new BP pistol

[thegreyman]

Alright,

Well as above really, after 2 months of ownership I finally got to go on a shoot without the MOD deciding to bump our club off the range (very busy at mo).

So after some tutoring off a very helpful senior club member I am now playing on the 'dark side' and really enjoying it.

However, I am non too impressed with my pistol if I am totally honest...

I had around 6 cylinders through her and always shot very low and scattered at a 25yrd range :S went form an initial charge of 18grn to 16grn of Pyrodex (just to test) and no change really. Balls I was using were Hornaday .375.

Now I am not a 'competion' shot but mid-way through I had a bash of a fellow member's .44 (same as mine a 1858 copy, however his was an Uberti as apposed to my Pietta) and got 4 of the 6 balls in a 2" group... :S something's not right with my pistol.

Any ideas/advice would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,

Diehard

[lilguy43uk]

Could be a lot of things, load volume, wads, even a heavy trigger. You should get your friend to try yours and see if his results are the same as yours.

[tacfoley]

You say that you are using a .375" ball. How easy are they to load? You should be shaving off a nice circle of lead as you press the ball into the chamber - if not, then the ball is too small.

According to all the documentation I have to paw, ball sizes for the .36 range from .376 way up to .380.

Also the standard [if there is such a thing] load for the .36 is ~22gr FFFg. Your load is VERY genteel by comparison.

Opinons differ 180 degrees about the use of wads - I've been shooting BP handguns since the late 1960's and never used them at all. There is no mention of them in any contemporary literature either, as the reading of any of the labels in a Colt box will testify.

tac

[lilguy43uk]

You say that you are using a .375" ball. How easy are they to load? You should be shaving off a nice circle of lead as you press the ball into the chamber - if not, then the ball is too small.

According to all the documentation I have to paw, ball sizes for the .36 range from .376 way up to .380.

Also the standard [if there is such a thing] load for the .36 is ~22gr FFFg. Your load is VERY genteel by comparison.

Opinons differ 180 degrees about the use of wads - I've been shooting BP handguns since the late 1960's and never used them at all. There is no mention of them in any contemporary literature either, as the reading of any of the labels in a Colt box will testify.

tac

That wads are not really necessary but, it's the way that I was taught and it has stuck. The rationale was that, using light loads, some rammers were not long enough to seat the ball onto the powder, therefore leaving an undesirable air gap. The wads take that out of the equation.
Also, by using semi greased felt wads I like to kid myself that any fouling will be kept softer and easier to clean.

By the way, you are using a .36 aren't you? My Pietta .36 shoots fine with .375 balls and 12gn fffg which is the max that Pietta recommend, 9gn being the min.

Just checked my loading database and realised that with 19gn my .36 had the same problems that you are finding.

[thegreyman]

Cheers for all the replies and comments people!

Unfortunatelt I don't get much chance to use the pistol at mo due to the aforementioned, hence why I like to be pre-planned on my next move.

The pistol is definately a .36 and I am using .375 balls with Pyrodex, no wads and no lube, nice lead ring produced when seating this ball as well.

Will say that the RCO did comment that mine was very loud for a small charge? Dunno if the means anything but may support last suggestion of lowering the load?

[lilguy43uk]

I believe that Pyrodex can be used at the same volume as BP BUT I've never used it so don't take it as gospel. I normally use 25gn fffg in my .45 and I've been asked "what load are you using to reach earthquake mode".

Mr. Foley has more experience than I do with BP pistols so I would listen to him regarding loads. Although I've been using BP in shotgun loads since the mid 80s, I've only been using pistols for the last few years.

[tacfoley]

I believe that Pyrodex can be used at the same volume as BP BUT I've never used it so don't take it as gospel.

That is correct, according to the maker's own literature. The 'ring-thing' sounds just fine, too.

It might, in the end, be down to your relative inexperience with this revolver - particularly one that has such tiny grips, like the .36 and almost non-existent sight. Being as deef as a rock I'm not the one to judge the sound made by your gun, but no load in ANY .36cal BP revolver comes near that made by a 44/45 with a correct load - in fact, they are pretty squeakpip by comparison. Maybe the RCO guy just has over-sensitive hearmentation?

25gr of FFFg in a .44cal is taken by some as simply a starting load - many of my acquaintace happily stuff their .44s with around 35gr of FFFg or more and have done for years with little effect on either hearing or concerns about the strengh of the gun they are shooting. My Walker, for instance, would happily digest a 55gr load. My own .44cal BP load, a pretty gentle one, can be seen in action on youtube - tacs trains - shooting the Ruger Old Army - and THAT is 30gr of Pyrodex, no wad, no filler, just a thin smear of E45 over the end of the load to keep things gloopy.

In the end, it's whatever works for you, your technique and your gun.

tac

[thegreyman]

Thank you again for the advice, I had a bit of a grumble regarding the grip size if I am honest, but I thought a .36 would be a good starting point for someone new to pistols (I am too young to have had a licence pre-ban) although I am used to big-arse rifles (up to 50BMG)

I'll have a play with the load next time I am up there and see what (if any) difference it makes, I'll also let a fellow BP shooter have a bash and see if I am just being a tit.

If all else fails, I'll get myself a .44 to play with, afterall, I have already got the open slot waiting, just incase

[john paul]

It would be interesting to see how it groups at 10m using a double handed grip? I am assuming you are shooting at least 20m.

I have used Pyrodex in my .36 Colt 61 Sheriff - (Pietta) load by volume 18gr works pretty well groups at 20m 3.5" on a good day, this is inside though the hammer sight thing is not user friendly to say the least. Outdoors I can get it grouping slightly better - easier to see the V in the hammer.

I used it the other week indoors at 10m and 15m and was getting 2-3" groups no problem, and shooting quickly.

I have experimented with wads bought, and homemade, fillers etc. I have settled just on Trex over the chambers.

If you want accuracy when you get your .44 opt for a pistol with target sights, yes not authentic but more satisfying.

I have a Euroarms Remington 58 s/s target sights .44 and it is far better than the aforementioned Colt clone, however I love the feel of the Colt, it feels just right in the hand.

Don't give up on it early days yet, just keep shooting it and build a feel for it. As mentioned previously get your friend who has the .44 to shoot it.

[tim56]

I notice you said no lube or wads and you havent mentioned using a filler. Lube/wads will help keep the fouling soft and will probably make a difference. Also a filler is used to bring the ball upto the rim of the chamber but it also ensures powder is compacted with no air gaps. Dont get dissheartened with the pistol just yet. All b/p pistols have their "sweet" load and after only one session you just havent found it yet. First time out with my Rogers i only hit the target board 4 out of 6 shots never mind the target itself. If you are using a filler over your powder try covering the balls with something like wonderlube or water pump grease or as someone mentioned trex or E45. Lolly sticks make a good applicator. Best of luck with it. Tim

[tacfoley]

For the past almost 35 years or so I've been using a smear of E35 - a white, odorless dermalogical emulsion that you can buy in tubs from places like Boots. Not only does it keep any fouling soft and manageable, it does the same for your hands. Being a water-based emulsion, it washes away easily, taking all the fouling with it. I began using it when I joined a large German BP club [with over 300 shooting members alone, as well as a few onlookers] and found that to a man [and woman] they were all using the German equivalent.

Do NOT use ANY petroleum-based grease as a sealer/softener - it will quickly form a near-immovable and solid crud that is VERY hard to get off. Water-pump grease, if you must, but remember that it is not water-soluble.

tac
vcrai.com

[Jim McArthur]

Your experiences should give everyone renewed respect for Wild Bill Hickock: a one-shot kill through the heart on David Nutt, at 75 yards with a Navy Colt.

Jim

[tim56]

75 yds, dont think i could even have seen the target at 75 yds. Just might have been a lucky shot though.

[tacfoley]

75 yds, dont think i could even have seen the target at 75 yds. Just might have been a lucky shot though.

Not for Mr Nutt, it wasn't.

tac

[loiner1965]

this to my knowledge is the only documented wild west gunfight to exist...most gun battles were at close range and in the back