Triple 7 in an ROA. Quantity/safety/odd advice on 777 website

[pnuk]

I know this has been partially discussed before but...

I've always used 777 in my ROA with reasonable results and have used a powder flask to throw the charges. Now have plastic vials on their way as an ornate grenade in my hand doesnt make me too comfortable.

The guy I bought the ROA off gave me the flask with one spout of 30g which he used. Clearly with 777 this is a fairly heavy load but...

As we know Hogdon decided that 777 is 15% more powerful than BP and loads should be managed accordingly. They have lots of blurb on the 777 website re: using it in cartridges (which I presume also relates to using it in the chambers of BP revolvers)

Extract here:

You may safely use a card or polyethylene wad up to .030" in thickness to protect the base of the bullet. Loading density should be 100% with light compression not to exceed .100". Testing has shown that Triple Seven will perform best when the bullet just touches the powder. Allow no airspace between the base of the bullet and the powder. Do not reduce loads by means of filler wads or inert filler material such as Grits, Dacron or Grex. Do not heavily compress powder charges. The use of filler wads, inert fillers or heavy compression may cause a dangerous situation, which could cause injury and/or death to the shooter, bystanders or damage property.

It also says that you must only use the amounts stated on their load page.
For an Old Army this is stated as 30 or 35G (by volume) here http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/muzzleloa...?CHECKBOX_1=on

Few queries around this:
a) The wad they suggest is thinner than even one lubed felt wad! My inetention has been to use a lower load but use a few felt wads to raise the height of the ball.
b) To get the most accuracy out of a BP revolver it is generally accepted that getting the ball as near to the top of the chamber as possible is optimum. If I use 30g of 777 and one felt wad and use the Rugers lever to push the ball into the cylinder (and not using so much force that it feels to be compressing anything) the ball sits considerably lower than I would wish
c) As most revolver shooters use a spherical ball, surely to have the bullet just touching the powder as recommended on their website would mean that their will be some airspace between the two so this seems contradictory. In fact, a thicker wad would seem ideal for having enough flex to fill this airspace.

Its odd that they seem against filler. If it were to mix with the powder clearly the burn rate would be all over the shop and energy spikes would occur but using a filler that cannot mix due to different consistencies or indeed a few wads would seem not to effect this at all?

I know all propellant manufacturers will do all theu can to cover themselves but the above seems odd, particularly the relatively high recommended loads.

Any thoughts?

[Simon G]

Triple 7 is not a Black Powder substitute, it is a nitro powder suitable for the use in black powder firearms. Because of this there are certain parameters that have to be adhered to and one of those is the height and compression of the powder tower in the chamber. Variations from this as stipulated can give extreme variations and dangerous spikes in pressure. When this came up the last time there were some that stated along the lines that they were doing everything contrary to the instructions. Well, on their head be it. Pyrodex is a BP substitute, so if you want to add inert fillers, three wads to get the 5gn charge level with the chamber mouth, you can. Don't do it with Triple 7.

As for the ball level with the chamber mouth for best accuracy. Fallacy. There is no testing or conclusions that support this position. There is even an argument that you should get the ball loaded as low in the chamber as you can so that the powder is all or near all burnt before the ball exits the chamber as burning propellant upsets the ball as it enters the forcing cone....... Yeah, OK....

As an aside, one of the most accurate combinations in cartridge revolvers was a 148gn wadcutter, loaded almost level with the case mouth of a .38 spl case, then shot out of a .357 magnum chamber! There's a lot of space before that bullet enters the barrel! But, if loading level with the chamber mouth gives the shooter confidence, then so be it, but he needs to be careful how he gets there.

Load your ROA as per Hodgdons instructions. Then concentrate on proper technique. 35gns and an Ox-yoke wad would give two inch groups at 25yds in my ROA, but only if I did my bit!!!

[pnuk]

Thanks for the reply Simon.
From your post and all the reading I've done on here in the past few days (since using a google search rather than the advanced earch on here) I tend to agree with not going against the suggested loading data due to 777's seeming prissyness about wanting so many factors 'just so'. A good reason to get my arse into gear re: sorting out a BP ticket.

Interesting that the suggested 777 loads for the ROA are relatively high, though I presume that this is more about the depth that the ruger lever seats the ball in the cylinder at its furthest reach being where a .457 ball will press a single wad lightly onto that particular load of 777, rather than having anything to do with accuracy.

Does make for a satisfying 'boom' though.

[acmsarh]

Another good reason to get a real BP ticket is that you do not need to get a recipient competency authority document from the HSE any more with new issue tickets.

[Rollo]

Oh I hadn't seen that new explosives certificates now include the RCA - thats good news as any reduction in the paperwork is always nice.