ISSF rules regarding age of cylinders 10 metre pistol

[RUIN]

Can anyone enlighten me on the issf rules for air cylinders 10 years old or more whether you are allowed to compete with them in the UK. Had someone query the age on my morini cylinders on the pistol I have for sale the original one is just over 10 years old, and I have another that i bought second hand which I think is possibly similar or close. Just need to clarify for my own peace of mind
thanks for any replies

[silvershooter]

I took part in a comp today with a Morini , date on the cylinder 2000, I have never had my cylinders checked and have done 4 comps now.

[RUIN]

thanks silver from what i have seen on other forum (targettalk) it does not seem to be an issue in the uk, i have sent a mail to issf for clarification, I just had my original cylinder serviced because it was leaking air and the manometer was replaced and it was checked for internal damage etc. I dont think myself it is a problem

[silvershooter]

No definitely not an issue in the UK. A poster on TT mentioned that at the World Championship 2010 and the World Cup 2011 in Munich they were not checked either.

[RobinC]

The ten year issue was one raised by the manufacturers ( I believe initialy Anschutz) a few years back in response to some problems that were caused by defective manufactured cylinders blowing up, and it was not age related. They made it a condition in their handbooks that cylinders must be replaced or rechecked by them at 10 years intervals, all the other German manufacturers jumped on the band waggon, so it was effectively an ass covering exercise so that they can pass off any responsibility for a problem on cylinders over ten years old. There is no legal issue as the cylinder size takes it below the jurisdiction of pressure vessel regulation in most countries including the UK. The ISSF rule at that time did not state that the cylinder must be in certification or in date but it was a tad vague and the German federation and a couple more initially interpreted it to be an equipment control issue, and it escalated when they checked them at the next big event, some jobsworth in the Uk and other countries joined in and they were initially checked at some meetings.
I believe when a lawyer pointed out that by passing an in certification or date cylinder for a competiion at equipment control on a safety issue the organisers were effectively saying it was Ok and that they had taken responsibility for its condition, so if it blew up during the meeting, even if it was because the owner had damaged it that the liability would fall on the event organisers, oops!! They realisied they had shot themselves in the foot, the ISSF rule was changed to read that the cylinder and its compliance with the manufacturers condititions was the shooters responsibility, and events quickly stoped looking at them!
So now its effectively irrelavent at competions but its a good bartering point for buyers, an old cylinder is unlikely to be usafe and ten years is an arbratory term as Morini cylinders are twenty years, and do you really think Italian engineering is better!! It was nice to see some jobsworths get their own back and so its only real relavence now is as a bartering tool.
Good shooting
Robin

[wonky donky]

A member off BBS told me he was at an international meeting quite recently where a competitor took a pistol to the manufacturers stand for servicing.

They looked at the cylinders & said they were over 10yrs old & binned them there & then??????????????

If it had been my cylinders I would have had quite a lot to say about that.

I have been told FWB won't repair cylinders over 10yrs old or retest them.

I have repaired leaking cylinders & fitted new gauges to cylinders, from all manufacturers, at the owners liability, made as far back 1997. I have only ever condemned one a couple of years back made in 2003. It was an aluminium one that had always been filled with a stirrup pump & was corroded inside from moisture...there might be a lesson there somewhere!

[RUIN]

Yes Robin The mail I got back from issf basically said the same thing, so it would appear the guy was just trying an angle. He should have done it on the phone cause he had a 2 1/2 hour drive for nothing

[silvershooter]

Two sellers on egun recently were selling 20 year old FWB pistols with a sticker on the cylinders and stating that they had been recertified by FWB for 10 years.
One seller of a FWB C25 on egun at the moment is stating that the cylinders can be checked:-

"CO2 cartridges are expired, checking the technical approval of the cartridges will cost around 20 € per cartridge."

[RUIN]

this is the mail i got from issf

Sorry for my late replay, but I am in a Competition.

I would like to give you the answere about your question now:


This 10 years are a safety issue and this comes up actually from allmost all manifacturers.
Here in Germany for example we have such rule in our rules, that the athlete is responsible, the same as in ISSF events.
In EQ we give advice for that, but have in mind for all our own safety we should care about that.

Let me know if I can do more for you and do not hesitate to conduct me again directly in any case

Best regards


Willi Grill

[RobinC]

I think the problem is the manufacturers don't want to service them not that they can't. The time, parts, postage, X ray to be really sure, etc makes it close to as cheap to get a new one, and they then take a degree of responsibility not knowing whether although the cylinder is in good condition at that time but has been previously over pressured on a regular basis and could go bang, so they take the stance ten years is enough and consider at 150 Euros thats a small price for ten years a bit over 1 Euro a month, cheap shooting, and not worth the risk.
In practice unless used by a total pratt they are virtualy unbustable and problems are very extremly rare, if you are happy to own and use one (I don't, but I would) then do, but it does says that in the book so be prepared that a ten year old cylinder is quite rightfully going to devalue a gun.
Good shooting
Robin