Pietta Remington 1858 - Pyrodex P load help?

[Buckle]

Righto Gents - Following on from the advice gained on here and at my club I took the plunge last weekend and bought myself a .44 Pietta Remington 1858 Stainless target model. The pistol came with some pyrodex P, a measure (graduated 10 - 120 - Grains I assume?), some viles, wads, balls and caps so I am pretty much ready for the first range outing - next Saturday.

My question is - can someone recommend a starting load please? I've looked at the Pietta site and they recommend 12-15 grains of FFFG Black Powder. However the Hodgdons Pyrodex P (PP) site recommends 30 Grains of Pyrodex P. I've been getting in a right tiswas over this and need some advice from the collective!!

I understand the powder is measured by vol, not weight but is 30 Grains of PP = to 15 Grains of FFFG?!? Or are Pietta being really over conservative with their load data? It seems over the pond they stoke these pistols up with 30 - 40 grains of PP.

Any recommendations for a starting load gratefully accepted!

[slowcoach]

Set your measure to 20 and start there. Powder wad and ball (I place the balls in a placcy bag and add a spoonfull of grease and work these over the balls, saves slobbering gunk all over the chamber mouth, seeing as you are using wads as well, never had a mythical chain fire yet in over 4000 rounds shot) I use both Pyrodex and 777 @ 20 grains volume and it bangs them into the 8, 9, 10 ring when I do my part.

I shoot either FFFG or FFG depending whats available and have not seen much of a differance to be honest, again both @ 20 grains by volume
Have tried at 30 grains but apart from bigger bang and recoil, accuracy fell off

Have fun

[Smokeless Coal]

I feel 30grns is max in BP and Pyro (reduce by 17% for 777) pyro and BP should be identical measure for measure.

12 to 15 is a bit light for a novice, when your loading technique is more practiced you might find a lighter load better. As slowcoach suggests around 20 should give good results.

[Buckle]

Excellent - thanks for the hints and pointers chaps. I'll start at 20 Grains this Saturday and report back.

I'll also do the trick with the bag and grease - will any old grease do? I have a tub of general purpose grease that gets used to fill the grease gun (prop saft UJ's ect.)

I think I am fast becoming yet another convert to the dark side!

[tacfoley]

Excellent - thanks for the hints and pointers chaps. I'll start at 20 Grains this Saturday and report back.

I'll also do the trick with the bag and grease - will any old grease do? I have a tub of general purpose grease that gets used to fill the grease gun (prop saft UJ's ect.)

I think I am fast becoming yet another convert to the dark side!

Slowcoach's plan to use pre-lubed RB is sound, but it you prefer to cover up the end of the chamber for some reason, do NOT use any hydrocarbon-based petroleum grease such as the one you describe - it will cake up under the heat and pressure and leave you with a hard-to-remove deposit.

For many years - like forty or so - I have used E45 - an emulsified hand cream/skin cream that not only keep the fouling soft, but washes away in water when cleaning. It comes from any pharmacy and a large tub will do you for a good while.

But of course, you may do what you want.

Incidentally, it has been shown that chain-fires are the result of worn nipples and badly-fitting caps allowing flash-over from one nipple to another, thus igniting the next chamber in an undesireable progression of shots that we call a chain-fire, for obvious reasons. Just ensure that the caps are a good tight fit and that the nipples are in good condition. I have a ROA, and they are stainless and last a long time, but Sure-Shot are also very good replacements for any size nipple - not sure if they are available over here tho'.

tac

[slowcoach]

Yep thats the grease I use Castrol LM, buggered about with all the cods wallop and home brew receipes in the past everything from lard and bees wax and possibly ear wax with a pinch of salt and pepper lol

Castrol LM works fine and a small smear on the lead ball is all that's needed, hence rolling them round in the bag with the grease, works absolutely fine with the substitutes as the grease is not getting blasted with all the fudge that BP produces and a smear is all that's required

[Smokeless Coal]

Castrol LM is not a good grease imho its petroleum based, read tacs post.

A small artists brush or syringe can be used with Atrixo and the like.

Personally I stick with 777 and aloxed balls but its all a matter of what you are happy with.

[slowcoach]

Castrol LM is fine on the ball only, no need to fill the chamber mouth with anything else, it is the smallest smear on the projectile only, no hand creams, cake mixes or special wonder lubes that you learnt off your granny are needed in front of the ball

If someone can host a pic for me I'll email one over of the targets last shot on Sat just gone with 777 FFG and Castrol LM lube?

PM if you can

Cylinder 1 shot through dry clean barrel, cylinders 2 & 3 on the money once the barrel is lubed and shot through

[tacfoley]

Not saying you're wrong nor wanting to get into a p!ssing match either. Do what you want.

Just saying what I do, is all.

tac

[martindavie]

hi i have tried various methods and have come to a few conclusions
1 chain fires are the result of worn nipples
2 lube is to save damage to bore
3 small amount of dedicated lube might save wear of riffling
4 they didnt use lube in civil war ?

conclusion you dont need any really.

[davederrick]

For many years - like forty or so - I have used E45

Bet your hands are lovely & soft too

[tacfoley]

Bet your hands are lovely & soft too

Yup. But not my brain.

tac

[slowcoach]

Think about soft lead meeting hard steel, steel will win in the toughness stakes. Lead is a lubricant in its own right, hence its use in petrol of yesteryear to lubricate valve seats.

The use of extra lube is for the fouling issue, which with true black can be a big issue.

With 777 especially the clean up routine for me is grips off and into very hot soapy water, scrub around with the bristle brush, into the oven to dry off for 5 mins then spray with Legia oil all over then put away until next time. There is minimal fouling anyway so no need to go splattering gunk through the gun and up the range side screens by filling the chambers with anything at all.

Give all variations a whirl and settle for the one that works for you

[Smokeless Coal]

So our top .22 target round manufacturer Eley coat their lead bullets in lube for no reason, I dont think so.

[Smokeless Coal]

hi i have tried various methods and have come to a few conclusions
1 chain fires are the result of worn nipples It seems so and with wads or fillers the chance of a chainfire at the front of the cylinder is reduced
2 lube is to save damage to bore nope we dont put enough shots through to cause wear, corrosion is our enemy
3 small amount of dedicated lube might save wear of riffling
4 they didnt use lube in civil war ? In the days when these things were shot in anger they never used wads but just seated the ball on the powder, the grease or tallow was put on to weather proof the load, so no they didnt use "lube"
conclusion you dont need any really.

The lube when using BP or Pyro is to keep the residue soft. Also a little bit of lube helps the ball take up the twist of the rifling rather than the tendancy of soft lead to be stripped around the periphery where the hot gasses would like to find the easiest escape route.