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Thread: Of interest to everyone in the uk

  1. #46
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    darlington
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    20
    It is a complex subject. The anti gun lobby will state that had the law not changed the increase in gun crime would have been even worse. I think there have been some positive changes over the years as well as the obvious negatives like the pistol ban. I am a native of NI and I find it hilarious that I can still have pistols there but in England I can't (well done Mo Mowlem) I think the fact that shotguns are recorded on certificate is important so that it can be shown that those recovered from crime scenes are not legally held. The old certificate and the rules that allowed you dispose of a shotgun to a certificate holder but were not obliged to discuss who that certificate holder was, was a system open to abuse.

    I have also seen a positive change in some licensing departments. My local one appears to be exceptionally understanding and helpful. I never thought I'd hear the words "can I interest you in a firearm certificate" when visiting their stand at a game fair after telling the FEO that I was engaged in vermin control.

    The only time constraint in getting my FAC was my lack of availability to have cabinet inspected. Very impressive.

  2. #47
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Flitwick
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    10
    It was obvious that changing the law wasn't going to cut gun crime. Tinfoil hat time - i'm sure governments don't like an armed society as they worry they may revolt one day

  3. #48
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    worksop
    Posts
    3
    Its all about control of the majority. If you can control, you can collect revenue. The minority (criminals) will always have the tools to be criminals with. Its win-win for the law makers. (government)

    I have noticed that more and more of these lord it over us law making government demons are being exposed as criminals.

    It is possible, that if everyone had a firearm, then the future gene pool may eventually become rich with individuals who don't want to kill themselves, or others and the criminals wouldn't want to advertise their status by having a fake limp.
    Also, my ZZR1100 is only capable of 69mph.

  4. #49
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Carmarthen
    Posts
    13
    A thorny subject as illustrated by the number of posts.
    An interesting statistics would be how many gun crimes were carried out using LEGALLY held fire arms?
    I speculate, very few in comparison to the overall figures.
    One of the corespondents summed it up very well, " People kill people not guns" Folks get killed with all manner of objects from Kitchen knives to sledgehammers from syringes to chainsaws. This world of ours is full of sharp, heavy, pointed, and the ubiquitous blunt instruments, which in the hands of so minded people will get the job done.
    But we the law abiding gun owners are an easy target for the anti gun lobbyist and Politicians alike, inspite of the fact they are aiming at the wrong target. Excuse the pun!
    This is our gross to bear but we must continue to vigorously defend our sport.

  5. #50
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Rochdale
    Posts
    9
    Quote Originally Posted by manxteddy View Post
    THESE ARE FROM OUR CLUB WEBSITE



    OF INTEREST TO EVERYONE IN THE UK
    (19/7/12) Home Office Figures

    THE CRIMINAL SHOOTER - ENGLAND AND WALES
    Deaths and injuries caused by the illegal use of guns (excluding airguns.)
    1969 - - - - 173
    1988 - - - - 410
    2008/9 - - - 1,764
    2010/11- - - 1,949

    THE LEGAL SHOOTER - ENGLAND AND WALES
    Certificates for the legal use of guns
    1988 - - - - 1,037,400
    2008/9 - - - - 713,674
    2010/12- - - - 705,516

    CRIMES INVOLVING THE USE OF HANDGUNS
    1988 - - - - 1,484
    1998/9 - - - 2,687
    2008/9 - - - 4,275
    2010/11- - - 3,105

    SO..... since 1988, there are now five times as many deaths and injuries from armed crime whilst legal firearm ownership has been reduced by 1/3rd.

    Pistols have been banned from legal use for most practical purposes, (reduced by around 98%) whilst the criminal use of pistols has increased considerably since the "ban."
    NOW tell the victims that banning or licensing saves lives.....

    Figures from Home Office publications from 1969 to 2012, the most recent being-
    "Homicides, Firearm Offences and Intimate Violence 2010/11:Supplementary Volume 2 to Crime in England and Wales 2010/11." Sarah Osborne, Ivy Lau and Andrew Britton, Edited by Kevin Smith. ISBN 978 1 84987 623 0.

    and
    "Firearm Certificates in England and Wales 2010/11" Jabeen Paracha. 22/3/2012, ISBN 978 1 84987 687 2.
    I wonder if the anti gun lobbyists use similar information regarding the rise in number of restaurants opening, meaning more chefs are required, in conjunction with the amount of stabbings increasing over the past 10 years.

    Nick

  6. #51
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Leicester
    Posts
    39
    Interesting and surprising figures - thanks for sharing

    shelly

  7. #52
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    London
    Posts
    257
    Make it difficult enough to own a firearm legally and only criminals will have guns.

    If we lived in a free country I rather doubt I'd find a reason to buy an airgun. Pests in your yard? Pop down to Walmart to pick up a .22 LR.

  8. #53
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Cromer
    Posts
    39
    That's surprising! I suppose that if people saw these stats they would still believe the media!

  9. #54
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Rainham, Kent.
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    1,494
    Quote Originally Posted by kevin42 View Post
    Four things happened that increased the number of illegal guns in the UK.

    1) The USSR imploded on itself - Result - Lots of poor people with access to saleable guns.

    2) Northern Ireland found peace - Result - Lots of people who previously had a lot of power when they had a cause wanted to keep the standard of living they had become used to equals lots of saleable guns. Why do you think they never agreed to decommision all the weapons? Worth too much money perchance?

    3) Eastern European countries allowed into EU - Lots of poor people with access to saleable guns with the added bonus of free movement of people and goods across borders.

    4) It became fashionable to be a W****R (sorry I meant Gangsta). Disaffected kids living on sink estates with no future feel empowered by by a 9Millie in the waistband.

    I do believe that none of the above situations was caused by anyone in Britain who wanted to do a bit of pest control or put some free range organic meat on the table.

    Please feel free to agree/ disagree/discus.

    Off my soap box now.
    Pretty much bob on IMO, in regard to point no3, I would imagine the Bosnian War put tens of thousands more firearms into circulation in Eastern Europe.
    Last edited by master_shriller; 23-09-2015 at 10:06 AM.
    master(dot)shriller(at)gmail.com

  10. #55
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Redcar
    Posts
    368
    We live in a place full of PC do gooders who want to give away what was the best place in the world to live.

  11. #56
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    GLASGOW
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    100
    According to the NCA half of our illegal firearms are being posted from the US. With criminals taking advantage of the lax security at UK Borders.

  12. #57
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    grantham
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    8
    Quote Originally Posted by Plinker87 View Post
    According to the NCA half of our illegal firearms are being posted from the US. With criminals taking advantage of the lax security at UK Borders.
    bet they are declaring them as gifts and not even paying import duty on them

  13. #58
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Bangor
    Posts
    1

    Stats, stats and more stats...

    First post so be gentle with me...

    Stats can be SO misleading...as can be used and misused by whomever for each's individual desire or cause!

    I've lived and worked in the US and for a while was resident in Miami, you'd think there'd be lots of gun crime etc but to be honest there was more active gun crime when came back to the UK and living in Nottingham (then nicknamed "Shotingham") than there was in Miami; by active I mean "first hand experience" not just media-biased reporting.

    I had a colleague who was travelling on the tram and experienced a gunshot going "thru-and-thru" the tram from one side to the other luckily without hitting anything substantial other than metal skin of the tram at the time.

    Recently been travelling back and forth to the States to visit my wife in St. Louis, Missouri. A lovely beautiful city though not without its issues or problems as do most major cities in the US or for that matter across the world.

    But its recently been named "The Most Violent City in America" - surpassing Chicago, New York and Los Angeles.... all from stats and possibly the recent upsurge of violence coming from the Ferguson Riots after the shooting of an unarmed but potentially violent felon sometime previously.

    I personally never witnessed any of these events whilst there and travelled all over the city, mostly on my own whilst my Wife was at work.

    So stats need to be taken at best 'with a pinch'... Dunblane and other such incidents in the UK were terrible events in both our own Nation's history but also that of the Shooting Community, who as we are aware were vilified afterwards despite the majority being the most law abiding members of the community. Political bias took control and many of us (especially after Dunblane who lost our legally held and used Section One Firearms) suffered.

    We need to remain strong and unified to ensure such things don't happen again as a weak community makes for an easy target.

    Education and openness work wonders on the ignorance of the majority who have never handled weapons of any kind... which at the end of the day are only tools doing a job.

    Hope this isn't too much for a first posting??

    Regards

    The_Rapscallion

  14. #59
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Leigh
    Posts
    20
    Another badly thought out plan of the Governments!!

  15. #60
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Paulton, Bristol
    Posts
    7
    wow i thought licence holders would of went up

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