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Thread: Of interest to everyone in the uk

  1. #1
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    Of interest to everyone in the uk

    THESE ARE FROM OUR CLUB WEBSITE



    OF INTEREST TO EVERYONE IN THE UK
    (19/7/12) Home Office Figures

    THE CRIMINAL SHOOTER - ENGLAND AND WALES
    Deaths and injuries caused by the illegal use of guns (excluding airguns.)
    1969 - - - - 173
    1988 - - - - 410
    2008/9 - - - 1,764
    2010/11- - - 1,949

    THE LEGAL SHOOTER - ENGLAND AND WALES
    Certificates for the legal use of guns
    1988 - - - - 1,037,400
    2008/9 - - - - 713,674
    2010/12- - - - 705,516

    CRIMES INVOLVING THE USE OF HANDGUNS
    1988 - - - - 1,484
    1998/9 - - - 2,687
    2008/9 - - - 4,275
    2010/11- - - 3,105

    SO..... since 1988, there are now five times as many deaths and injuries from armed crime whilst legal firearm ownership has been reduced by 1/3rd.

    Pistols have been banned from legal use for most practical purposes, (reduced by around 98%) whilst the criminal use of pistols has increased considerably since the "ban."
    NOW tell the victims that banning or licensing saves lives.....

    Figures from Home Office publications from 1969 to 2012, the most recent being-
    "Homicides, Firearm Offences and Intimate Violence 2010/11:Supplementary Volume 2 to Crime in England and Wales 2010/11." Sarah Osborne, Ivy Lau and Andrew Britton, Edited by Kevin Smith. ISBN 978 1 84987 623 0.

    and
    "Firearm Certificates in England and Wales 2010/11" Jabeen Paracha. 22/3/2012, ISBN 978 1 84987 687 2.
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  2. #2
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    but in 1969 there wasn't as many Gangta's limping around was there
    In saying yes to this air rifle you are confirming that you are not a messer and are allowed to go out in public without your carer

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    Jackel is offline Welding guru and moderator to the stars
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    geoffd69 is offline Pops head up, looks around, squeeks and runs back underground
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    Laws

    Laws and locks are for honest people. If there's a law then there is always someone somewhere thats going to break it. How many of us drive faster than 70mph on the roads?
    BUT there is a massive difference between driving well within the limits of the car and some, would be hard case packing a shoota. Anyone can win an argument by poking a barrel up someones nose.



    "Standing out in the rain doesnt make you hard it makes you wet!"

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by manxteddy View Post
    THESE ARE FROM OUR CLUB WEBSITE



    OF INTEREST TO EVERYONE IN THE UK
    (19/7/12) Home Office Figures

    THE CRIMINAL SHOOTER - ENGLAND AND WALES
    Deaths and injuries caused by the illegal use of guns (excluding airguns.)
    1969 - - - - 173
    1988 - - - - 410
    2008/9 - - - 1,764
    2010/11- - - 1,949

    THE LEGAL SHOOTER - ENGLAND AND WALES
    Certificates for the legal use of guns
    1988 - - - - 1,037,400
    2008/9 - - - - 713,674
    2010/12- - - - 705,516

    CRIMES INVOLVING THE USE OF HANDGUNS
    1988 - - - - 1,484
    1998/9 - - - 2,687
    2008/9 - - - 4,275
    2010/11- - - 3,105

    SO..... since 1988, there are now five times as many deaths and injuries from armed crime whilst legal firearm ownership has been reduced by 1/3rd.

    Pistols have been banned from legal use for most practical purposes, (reduced by around 98%) whilst the criminal use of pistols has increased considerably since the "ban."
    NOW tell the victims that banning or licensing saves lives.....

    Figures from Home Office publications from 1969 to 2012, the most recent being-
    "Homicides, Firearm Offences and Intimate Violence 2010/11:Supplementary Volume 2 to Crime in England and Wales 2010/11." Sarah Osborne, Ivy Lau and Andrew Britton, Edited by Kevin Smith. ISBN 978 1 84987 623 0.

    and
    "Firearm Certificates in England and Wales 2010/11" Jabeen Paracha. 22/3/2012, ISBN 978 1 84987 687 2.
    Looks like they got it right then, doesn't it?

    Encroaching on legitimate, responsible shooters' rights, destroying their passion/hobby/livelihood, and obviously gun crime is now reduced to zero.

    Just goes to show, do what you want with the law, it won't affect the crims. All those laws did was to demonise law abiding, safe shooters.

    I'm off now, before I REALLY get ranting.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by frontend loader View Post
    but in 1969 there wasn't as many Gangta's limping around was there
    Lmao what is it with the fake limp

  8. #8
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    I'm not so sure if those prove anything either way. Gun crime was rising steadily before the ban, it's kept rising but possibly at a slower rate than it would of if handguns weren't banned? Who knows? Clearly it didn't make the impact they made out it was going to make but no one can be sure of what really would of taken place
    Seal sets for the SMK XS78 QB78 TH78 XS79 AirGuns ~ 5 each posted

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    Well, I had a goodly selection of handguns before the ban, and none of them were ever involved in crime while they were in MY possession. On the other paw, there is plenty of evidence that handguns that had been surrendered to the officers of law and order have turned up occasionally in hands of criminals, although I can't for the life of me understand just how that could have happened

    The majority of armed crime is still carried out with shotguns, rather than the handguns that we no longer own. It's true that there remains a quantifiable amount of use of replicas of one kind or another, but I've yet to see ANY crime committed by a crook wielding a Colt Model of 1873, or Broomhandle Mauser.

    tac

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    Quote Originally Posted by wild75 View Post
    Laws and locks are for honest people. If there's a law then there is always someone somewhere thats going to break it. How many of us drive faster than 70mph on the roads?
    BUT there is a massive difference between driving well within the limits of the car and some, would be hard case packing a shoota. Anyone can win an argument by poking a barrel up someones nose.



    "Standing out in the rain doesnt make you hard it makes you wet!"
    Cars are capable of more than 70mph, many drivers, depite their assertion that they are "Formula 1" material, are not . With a speed limit, drivers are able to make good judgement calls on what to do vis-a-vis other people on the road. How many deaths a year from driving? Quite a few Certainly, a massive amount more than guns are responsible for. I reckon the Ambulance services and Police view speeding as fairly serious, as they are the ones who have to scrape victims of it up afterwards.
    Its just unfortunate that the law has not updated to make killing via a vehicle murder/manslaughter as appropriate.
    I'll buy THAT for a dollar!

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  11. #11
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    Speeding does not cause crashes. driving recklessly causes crashes, but never simply breaking the speed limit.I don't really take notice of the speed limits. I drive to the conditions of the road. Sometimes driving much faster than the limit, other times much slower, and I have never had so much as a bump in my life. I've been driving since I was 17 and I'm now 34
    Seal sets for the SMK XS78 QB78 TH78 XS79 AirGuns ~ 5 each posted

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackel View Post
    perfect
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  13. #13
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    I've only just taken the time to read this post, so my tuppenceworth is a bit late.

    The OP claims 1949 deaths in the years 2010/11 through the illegal use of firearms.

    This figure, around 37 unlawfull killings per week, is total bollox. The UK has around 600 murders per year and the vast majority do not involve firearms.

    ISBN 978 1 84987 623 0 is a good starting point, given the OP uses it as his reference. Here is a link directly to it;

    http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publica...12?view=Binary

    If that doesn't work then here is a quote from page 55

    In 2010/11, there were 58 fatal injuries caused by the use of a firearm, an increase from the 40 recorded the previous year. The 58 fatal injuries recorded in 2010/11 include the 12 people killed by Derrick Bird in June 2010. However, serious injuries decreased by 18 per cent from 404 in 2009/10 to 330 in 2010/11, continuing the long-term downward trend.

    though on page 18 it says:

    In 2010/11, there were 60 shooting homicides recorded. This is an increase of 19 on the previous year and includes the 12 victims of the Cumbria shootings on 2 June 2010.

    Can't both be right, obviosly. But both figures a little less than the 1949 initially quoted.

    Now, ISBN 978 1 84987 623 0 is a long document, 118 pages to be exact, I only glossed over the first few pages, then used the index to go direct to a few relevent pages, and didn't bother reading the rest. I would suggest that whoever posted this on the OPs club website didn't even bother to read the index.

    I've not posted this to start an arguement, more to question why no-one seems to have checked the facts, and why when as all the numbers quoted are wrong, the thread is a sticky.
    Whether you think you can or think you can't, you're probably right.

  14. #14
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    The information is on my club's website and was also passed onto me by someone very well informed in a major shooting sports organization.
    The figures are certainly high. Perhaps others who have more time will comment.
    Graham
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetski View Post
    Speeding does not cause crashes. driving recklessly causes crashes, but never simply breaking the speed limit.I don't really take notice of the speed limits. I drive to the conditions of the road. Sometimes driving much faster than the limit, other times much slower, and I have never had so much as a bump in my life. I've been driving since I was 17 and I'm now 34
    what a load of rubbish. speeding does cause crashes and sometimes has absolutely nothing to do with road conditions. Outside influences other than road conditions can cause crashes. If you speed then the reaction time to outside influences reduces purely down to your ability to react to them. Your reaction time will remain the same at 50 mph to 80 mph. Your reaction to a given incident does not increase because you are going faster, on the contrary your reaction remains the same however you have less distance to react as you have traveled further. You sir, have been lucky so far. I have passed the advanced driving course and dabbled years ago in a bit of motor sport. This did not prevent two fully grown roe deer from trying to take up residence on the bonnet of my car and under the wheel of the drivers side. I was driving just below the speed limit on a dry road and perfect visibility. Those two roe deer cost me a new front wing tracking arm front grill and near heart attack. I was very lucky that nothing was coming the other way as the impact caused the vehicle to bounce across the road onto the opposite carriageway. Sorry, when i say car i was driving a big 4x4. If i had been driving a car god knows the outcome. If you keep driving much faster than the limit fine. the road conditions may be great. You may be the best driver in the world and i am sure formula one will be signing you up very soon. However even the best of the formula one guys all driving in the same direction with all their safety equipment have accidents. ask ayrton senna!

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