Prone shooting.

[mouse 1948]

I am having a problem and was wondering if any .22 prone shooters might be able to help my problem is i can set my diopter spot on the ball and put 2or 3 shots through the same hole then the whole group moves out to the left and i have to re ajust my diopter this is at 25yds useing r50 ammo i was just wondering if anyone else has ever had a problem like this my prone rifle is a Walther kk match with a Walther diopter sight.

Thanks for looking and good shooting.

[Rutty]

Hi mouse,

There could be a number of possible causes but without watching you shoot it really is nigh on impossible to say what it might be. Get hold of your club coach, tell him\her about your problem and get them to observe you. Chances are they will spot something that is happening that could be causing the movement and suggest some changes.

Rutty

[lwebster]

I think Ruttys advise is the most likely to get to the bottom of the issue. In the meantime if you have your kit at home, I would suggest that you check nothing is loose on the rifle. Also make sure your sling isnt rotating around your arm as you wiggle from shot to shot, you could test this with dry firing at home after paying attention to where your sling is to start with, and going through your simulated routine for 10, then checking at the end if it has rotated.

I would follow Ruttys advise and find someone credible to observe you.

Regards

[mouse 1948]

Rutty thanks for your advice i will do that next time at the range and thanks for taking the time to help me
Regards

[Webby1]

Mike
you could video yourself then play it back

cheers Dave

[mouse 1948]

Hi Liam
Thanks for that i will check what you have said i have checked foresight and rear sight are not loose but it sounds like its something i am doing wrong
Regards
Mike.

[mouse 1948]

Hi Dave
Thats sounds a good idea Dave its just one of those things that its hard to put your finger on if you ever get into prone you will understand i did not exspect to see you had to look twice to make sure it was you.
Regards
Mike

[tim s]

Mike,

Does this happen when shooting the sighter (i.e. on one aiming spot), or as you move around the card? If it's the latter, it's likely that you are not adjusting your position correctly and are muscling the gun onto aim.

However there could be other causes. One is that the butt is moving in your shoulder; this can happen if the sling is loose, or if the cheekpice is too wide (so your head pushes the butt out as you try to aim), of if your wrist is bent. Another thought is that the postion of your head on the stock isn't consistent, maybe because the cheekpice is the wrong shape or size.

Really you need to be checked over by a qualified coach, or at least a talented amateur.

[mouse 1948]

Hi Tim when i shoot a sighter we have the cards with two on them i get two perfect balls dead center then i might shoot a 97 but after shooting for a while the whole group moves over into the 8 ring it can sometimes be all in the same hole,i always start by picking up the npa and then just ajust my position as i move around the target i think what you are saying about head position on stock might have something to do with it the sling seems ok not overtight the only way i can get the group back into the 10 is ajust the sight.The next time at the range i will check all what you have said.
regards
And many thanks for looking and for your help and to all the other shooters with a love of our sport that offer help.

[mouse 1948]

Hi Tim
I think what you said about the stock being wrong shape and size is my problem i removed cheek piece and i could get my head in a bettrer position it looks like its too wide so what i need to do is make one thats not so wide and that i can ajust side ways as there is no ajustment on the one fitted to the gun
Regards
and many thanks and good shooting.

[Webby1]

hopefully you have it sorted

[tim s]

As well as looking at the shape/size of the cheekpiece I'd also look at the buttplate, and it's position in your shoulder. Depending on the age of your rifle, the butt may be adjustable laterally (Walther used the KKM designation from the 1950s to the 1990s, and improved their stocks several times over the years). If you have played around with the butt settings, it's possible that the buttplate has been adjusted too far to the right, so the cheekpiece/barrel line is too close to your head, so again your head is pushing the rifle out of position.

However as the problem takes a while to manifest, I wonder if there is not another factor. If the cheekpiece was too wide, I'd expect you to throw shots left sooner; I've suffered from the same problem in the past, and usually it takes less than 10 shots for my head to nudge the rifle out of position. I think your body may be relaxing into a slightly different position, as your arm muscles/tendons stretch under the weight of the rifle. Do you ever drop the butt out of your shoulder when the 8s appear? I wonder if dismounting and the remounting the rifle will have an effect.

[mouse 1948]

Hi Tim,

I have ajusted butt plate quite a lot to try and find best position but its back where it used to be,my Walther was made in 1997 and is in very good condition for the age.I have had a problem trying to get my head in the right position when shooting prone and it never feels quite right,when shooting compeitition cards i only scope first target out of the ten on the card,when the problem first started i thought it was my diopter it has narrowed it down shots going out to the left we have a chart at our club that gives some indication what might be wrong but as yet not much help,i will be going to the club tomorrow to go through all what you have said and what all the others have said so will let you know how i get on you never know one day i might be able to offer some help to someone with the same problem i only ever bring gun down when i finish the card, like you i thought it was strange to start shooting to the left i have only been shooting prone for two years but in that time have spent many hours practicing and its paid off well i thought it had when its going ok i can shoot 98-99.
Regards
And thank you very much
Mike.

[tim s]

Ah, you'll have a KK200 then.

I'm not sure that only scoping the first shot is a good idea given the problem you're describing. Unless you can tell when the shift has happened, it's a good way to lose a lot of points. That said, not scoping every shot is a good way to get confidence in your zero, and also to avoid counting your score. I scope the 1st, 2nd, and 5th myself. Maybe until you get this sorted, scoping every other shot could reduce the chance of 9 8s all in the same place.

There is nothing wrong with dropping the butt out of the shoulder. Look at the footage of International prone finals on the ISSF/Youtube site, many many of the world's top prone shooters drop the butt to relax. If your position is good, the butt will go back into the correct place. It might even be a good idea to check/reposition the butt every shot.

I totally agree about cheekpiece fit. It's taken me a long time, but eventually with the help of Centra club blocks, which offset the sightline to the left I can look through the sights squarely. You might start by removing the factory cheekpiece, and replacing it with a thin wooden lath.

[mouse 1948]

Hi Tim,
I got that a little wrong i used to only spot first target but i payed the price but at the moment i would take your advise and spot more,our postal league starts at the end of September so have a little time to sort it.I fitted centra riser blocks to try and look squarely through my diopter but cheek piece got in the way the only way i can look squarely through the diopter is to cant the rifle to the left,i have watched most of the prone shooting on utube and this years olympics i even timed them between shots,i have just looked at the warranty for my gun and its the kk match after all these years the test target the book and the walther export certificate still with the gun i think the person i got it from got it from new i will try and make up a cheek piece thats not so wide so here's hoping.
Regards
And thank you so very much
Mike