Reply With QuoteI would opt for an original everytime.Originally Posted by jennings
They are an investment and if you decide to give up shooting you can keep it as an antique.
Registered User
Guys,
1st posting on your excellent site.
I've got a space for a .36 BP on my FAC and have been thinking of a Remington, possibly a New Model Navy . I'm drawn to get an original but would the additional expenditure worth it? I've been reading Derek Fullers guide to shooting Muzzle Loading Pistols and the impression he gives is that an original is the best.
I shoot a ROA most of the time so this would only be used on the odd competion etc.
Any thoughts would be much appreciated before I put my hand in my pocket either at the Trafalger or the Classic at Bisley over the next couple of weekends.
One of the Blackhand Gang
I would opt for an original everytime.
They are an investment and if you decide to give up shooting you can keep it as an antique.
Frock coat wearing, riverboat dwelling, southern gent
Are originals as safe to shoot as reproductions?
UBC's Police Pistol Manager
"Nasty, noisy things, revolvers, Count. Better stick to air-guns." Sherlock Holmes, The Adventure of the Mazarin Stone
Registered User
An original Remington arm revolver costs £1600 to £2600 and a repro is, I think £400 . The original remingtons were disliked as they were poorly built. I would only go for an original if a modern repro wasn't available. I used to shoot a .577 snyder rifle and I under loaded it in deference to its age. If you want to shoot it a lot I would buy a repro as they are made of better metal, the springs are less lightly to brake and you can get spares. Black powder residue attracts water and if you don't clean it carefully it will rust badly and that will destroy its value. I was told if you get a stainless steel BP revolver you could take the grips off and pit it into a dishwasher to clean. I used to shoot a BP remington army pistol and I thought it was a much better pistol than the BP colt pistols.
The only advantage of buying an original is that you can keep it when you have given up shooting.
FWB P8X,Hammerli AP40, Steyr LP1 Walther LPM-1, CPM-1, CP1, CP2, LP3, LP53, LP300, LP400, Terrus, Pardini P10, FX Wildcat .177, HW100 .22, AA S410 .22, BSA R10 MK2 .177, , HW77, 80, 90 BB AK47, S&W 586 and more blow back Co2 BBs than you can shake a stick at
One of the Blackhand Gang
Hello Jim,
Obviously the condition has to be taken into consideration. I know a few people who shoot only originals and would not dream of owning a repro.
Just out of curiosity an old Indian musket barrel was tested. The bore was in poor condition and it was suspected most of the base plug had corroded away.
The barrel was charged with 100grains of powder and a double patch and ball and it stood the test. That does not mean all old barrels are safe but it does give an indication of the quality of the steel that was used in the past before modern steel came to the fore.
While that stood the test I have heard of Damascus barrels uncoiling when they have been fired.
As always with any gun err on the side of caution.
Registered User
Guys,
Thanks for the replies.
I shoot a Snider carbine and a MK1V Martini and I must admit that half the fun with those is researching what other people load and every time I have them out there's always someone coming over for a chat ,which doesn't happen when I have the ROA out. So I do appreciate that any original needs to be treated with deference.
A guy at the club told me he puts his stainless ROA in the dishwasher with no ill effects but I use an ultrasonic cleaner.
One of the reasons for looking at an original was that antique firearms seem to do pretty well as an investment compared to the reproduction ones, I've a small collection of Martini's off ticket and they all have performed better than the bugger all interest rate from the bank.
I was drawn towards the Remington because what I've read so far indicates they are a better revolver to shoot, unfortunatley no one at my club shoots one , the club has a reproduction Colt in .36 but I haven't got on with that.
I was hoping to have got to Bisley for the Trafalgar meeting over the weekend but best laid plans etc, I got diverted to doing a repair in the kitchen so I hope to get to the Classic fair there next weekend to see what's about and what the cost is.There appears to be plenty of reproductions on the market but little in the way of originals
So the dilemma still remains as to which one to get.
Frock coat wearing, riverboat dwelling, southern gent
Then there's the problem that every time you fire any gun, you wear it out a bit.
My wife and I used to shoot cannon at the Battle of New Orleans reenactment. The Park Service had a couple of genuine period pieces on the field, but they never fired them: partly for that reason.
UBC's Police Pistol Manager
"Nasty, noisy things, revolvers, Count. Better stick to air-guns." Sherlock Holmes, The Adventure of the Mazarin Stone
Registered User
Have shot both the Colt M1851 Navy and the Remington Navy. The Remington was more accurate, and much more reliable.
The Colt has a wider cut in the rear of the frame, where the hammer normally rests, and where it moves forward to strike the cap on the nipple. Quite often, the force of the explosion of the powder charge will push the cap off the nipple, and if you are unlucky it will fall down into the action, and the gun will not fire the next shot due to the used cap being stuck down inside. I've had this happen a number of times, and it's most disconcerting.... expecially when you're on the firing line, shooting in a timed match.
However, I've never had it happen when shooting a Remington. Only the nose of the Remington hammer pokes through a narrow slot in the frame, so the possibility of a fired cap getting caught up in the works is virtually nil. Add to that the solid frame that the Remington has, and the ease of removing the cylinder for cleaning, and the Remington wins, hands down.
There's nothing like the feel of the Colt, though. It fits my hand perfectly, and feels like a revolver is supposed to feel.
Last edited by Sergeant Possum; 27-10-2012 at 11:37 PM.
One of the Blackhand Gang
Hi Jim,
I think you will find there is a difference between modern arms and muzzleloaders and how they wear. Modern arms which are usually breech loaders wear because of the higher pressures. The hotter gases erode the throat, (forcing cone), and the copper bullets wear the rifling.
It is reckoned that soft lead does not wear the barrel out on a muzzleloader and there is no throat to erode away. It has been proven that patched ball will wear a barrel away, eventually. I doubt that few of us would have the time and money to prove that.
Cannons are, I believe, treated differently because they are cast. The Royal Navy used to change their cannons after they had fired 1,000 shots. Experience told them that a cannon used after that was liable to burst. While it was not an exact science it was a safety margin that they used. Cannons that were replaced after 1,000 shots have been tested and some failed shortly after and others took another few hundred shots before failing.
Atb
Frock coat wearing, riverboat dwelling, southern gent
Very interesting, Enfield: I never knew that about the old cannon!
Jim
UBC's Police Pistol Manager
"Nasty, noisy things, revolvers, Count. Better stick to air-guns." Sherlock Holmes, The Adventure of the Mazarin Stone
Registered User
I agree with your comments about colt vs Remington. I had a colt navy and the action was always being jammed by caps falling down into it. I always thought the grip on a Remington army (.44) was too small and it wasn't as nice to hold but it was a better gun overall. I had a spare cylinder for mine but when the government stole the rest of my pistols they wouldn't let me keep it and stole the spare cylinder as well
The key to reloading for the Snyder is a billet that is a large enough. The standard muzzle loading .577 bullet is too small for the Snyder as it is designed to slide down the rifling and then the skirt is supposed to expand and grip the rifling but on the Snyder it isn't reliable and on mine most of the bullets tumbled and were very inaccurate. I machined my bullet mould to make the bullets about .579 and my Snyder then became quite accurate.
FWB P8X,Hammerli AP40, Steyr LP1 Walther LPM-1, CPM-1, CP1, CP2, LP3, LP53, LP300, LP400, Terrus, Pardini P10, FX Wildcat .177, HW100 .22, AA S410 .22, BSA R10 MK2 .177, , HW77, 80, 90 BB AK47, S&W 586 and more blow back Co2 BBs than you can shake a stick at
Banned
Why did the gubmint take your exempt BP revolver?
tac
Registered User
I was allowed to keep the revolver but they took my spare cylinder for the BP revolver
FWB P8X,Hammerli AP40, Steyr LP1 Walther LPM-1, CPM-1, CP1, CP2, LP3, LP53, LP300, LP400, Terrus, Pardini P10, FX Wildcat .177, HW100 .22, AA S410 .22, BSA R10 MK2 .177, , HW77, 80, 90 BB AK47, S&W 586 and more blow back Co2 BBs than you can shake a stick at
Banned
What possible reason was there for doing that?
It was a black powder revolver cylinder...not a centre-fire revolver cylinder.
tac
Registered User
Because they're the government, and they can generally whatever they damn well please.
Please note that this is not intended to be a criticism of the UK or its government. The government of the US can be just as ornery....especially when it comes to guns.
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