Titan SL600 Deluxe - 1989 prototype valuation

[dazzer252]

Hi Everyone,

I have just joined the forum in the hope that someone can help me with a question regarding a air rifle we have. In 1989 my father entered a competition with Air Gun world to win one of the new (at that point still to be released!) Titan SL600 deluxe air rifles in .22 calibre. He was the winner and was later contacted by Titan offering him a .177 version as he tells me they said they weren't producing the .22 at that time. He wrote back to them asking if there was any chance of waiting for a .22 version as this is what, at the time, he really wanted.

Sometime later he received this with a nice covering letter from Titan Developments Ltd part of which states (we still have the letter) "we are very sorry there has been such a long delay but we have been waiting components from our suppliers to build the weapons in .22 calibre. However the weapon we have sent is one the first four proto-types received and as such can be considered a "collectors" item".

In view of the letter my dad kept the rifle in its box with the original letter and other then firing it 1/2 dozen times to test it never used it. He thinks they didn't go on to produce this in .22 but isn't sure of this fact.

He has since passed this on to me and I would just be interested to know if the rifle has much of a value, and if so what this might be? We aren't looking to sell this at the moment but thought there might be some experts on here who could assist?

We have had some advice from the UK Airgun forum about this been designed by John Bowkett and intend to contact him to see if he has anymore information. The information on his offical facebook page also tends to indicate that this was never produced in the.22 calibre and was then replaced with a later model called the SL800.
I am guessing that the rifle we have was one of the few produced from their initial .22 parts, but hope to confirm this when I speak with John.


Here is the extract from the facebook page : "John came up with a simple but ahead of the game 12 ft/lbs single stroke pneumatic rifle that would have its components made in India and shipped over here to be assembled using stocks made in Sheffield by Custom Stocks Ltd and barrel blanks bought in from Walther in Germany but machined locally.
This sort of venture cannot happen overnight and experience has shown that at least two years are required from the first brainwave to getting something in the shops and that is if all goes well on the production side of things.
The company had meantime to generate revenue until the single stroke was launched so using their contacts with the Chinese government the automotive duo arranged for a shipment of side lever air rifles made in one of the military armament factories in Northern China. This proved a communication nightmare but eventually the shipment arrived all in .177" except for a few samples of .22". The sales of air rifles is usually split 80%/20% in favour of .22" but they were reluctant to supply .22"s. John was asked to come up with a conversion for this low powered (except when it dieselled!!!) air rifle. This he did using a steel piston head carrying an O ring, piston weight, BSA Meteor spring and a couple of fat O rings to replace the leather breech seal. Triggers were cleaned up and an adjuster fitted. We had made locally a long scope ramp. The existing spot welded rear sight was knocked off and the cylinder drilled, tapped and the ramp held in place by two loctited screws. The original rear sight was refitted at the front of this ramp and an arrestor stud at the rear. Woodwork was sourced from Custom Stocks of Sheffield and the finished article was called the SL800. The SL stood for side lever and the 800 referred to the velocity with which it shot lightweight Eley Wasp pellets with remarkable accuracy. They did not sell well because when the cost of the UK end of the rifle was added in it placed the SL800 at a price where it had stiff competition from existing quality spring air guns. "

I am not sure how easy it would be to put a value on this so would welcome any experts in the field who might be able to shed some light on this. It doesn't have the original instructions as I am not sure we ever got any (maybe as it was a proto type) but there is copies of the promotional material for this on the facebook page.

Update:

Well I had a lovely chat with John tonight and he remembers the gun well considering this was over 20yrs ago! Much of the information we had was correct as the background to this was that Titan had the main barrell and mechinism made by the chinese military as some of the directors had contacts in this area. The original delivery was meant to be for mostly .22 parts but ended up with nearly all .177 bits. John used these parts and modified elements using components from the BSA Meteor (spring, piston head, washer, etc). The deluxe version we have had the stock made by custom stocks in Sheffield. One of these was either given, or purchased, by airgun world as part of their "spot the difference" competition which is the one won by my father.

As is indicated on the facebook page by the time all the UK work was done the gun became unsuitable for the UK market and never really took off.

He has confirmed that only 4 were ever built in .22 and they were never put into mass production due to the parts issue. There were some built in .177 and marketed / sold as the SL800 but he wasn't sure of the exact numbers.


Many Thanks

Darren

PS Pics to follow!



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[dazzer252]

Further to the above I had a lovely chat with John tonight and he remembers the gun well considering this was over 20yrs ago! Much of the information we had was correct as the background to this was that Titan had the main barrell and mechinism made by the chinese military as some of the directors had contacts in this area. The original delivery was meant to be for mostly .22 parts but ended up with nearly all .177 bits. John used these parts and modified elements using components from the BSA Meteor (spring, piston head, washer, etc). The deluxe version we have had the stock made by custom stocks in Sheffield. One of these was either given, or purchased, by airgun world as part of their "spot the difference" competition which is the one won by my father.

As is indicated on the facebook page by the time all the UK work was done the gun became unsuitable for the UK market and never really took off.

He has confirmed that only 4 were ever built in .22 and they were never put into mass production due to the parts issue. There were some built in .177 and marketed / sold as the SL800 but he wasn't sure of the exact numbers.

[gingernut]

That is some first post dazzer!

As to value I guess it will be pretty high.
Add photos and wait for experts on here to surface.

[dazzer252]

That is some first post dazzer!

As to value I guess it will be pretty high.
Add photos and wait for experts on here to surface.

Yes sorry for the length but I wanted to give as much info over as we know about it. I apprecaite that Titan guns won't be as collectable as prototype BSA's etc but was just curious to know what value (low or high) it might now be worth. I am not looking for anything high but just in case it was it would be useful to know for the house insurance.

Will try and post some photos shortly or there are also some on the same question I have asked on the UK air gun forum at:
http://www./forums/anything-airgun-r...luation-2.html

[dazzer252]

Sorry..I think because I am new I can't post attachments as my permissions as "you may not post attachments". So for photos please see the link on my previous reply for the Uk airgun forum as there are some pics on there.

If I am missing how to add pics please let me know

[Herpquest]

I have one of these which I purchased from Mattyboy a couple of months ago as a SL 800 (.177) although it has no markings other than the BAM
logo partially hidden by the scope ramp.
Research indicates that the action is an early BAM XS-B3 with a leather piston seal.

[dazzer252]

I have one of these which I purchased from Mattyboy a couple of months ago as a SL 800 (.177) although it has no markings other than the BAM
logo partially hidden by the scope ramp.
Research indicates that the action is an early BAM XS-B3 with a leather piston seal.

Thanks for the extra info. Yes I believe that the .177 was produced and sold for a short while but the .22 (deluxe or standard) was never put into production other than the 4 prototypes. John tells me that the "deluxe" refered to the type of stock they intended to use. Out of interest does the .177 look the same as the .22 shown in our pics (i.e the stock, etc). I am not sure how many of the .177's were made and sold in the end and no one I have asked has any idea.

/forums/anything-airgun-related/142131-titan-sl600-deluxe-proto-type-valuation-2.html

Sorry but I can't get the link to work (maybe due to been a new member?) but if you go to the airgun forum uk you will see the pics........I will post them here once I am able to :-)

[Herpquest]

Thanks for the extra info. Yes I believe that the .177 was produced and sold for a short while but the .22 (deluxe or standard) was never put into production other than the 4 prototypes. John tells me that the "deluxe" refered to the type of stock they intended to use. Out of interest does the .177 look the same as the .22 shown in our pics (i.e the stock, etc). I am not sure how many of the .177's were made and sold in the end and no one I have asked has any idea.

/forums/anything-airgun-related/142131-titan-sl600-deluxe-proto-type-valuation-2.html

Sorry but I can't get the link to work (maybe due to been a new member?) but if you go to the airgun forum uk you will see the pics........I will post them here once I am able to :-)

Darren, I have looked at the pics of your SL600 on the 'other' forum and it looks identical to the one that I have.. I cannot post pics on here, so I will
e-mail the pics to you.
ATB
Eric

[dazzer252]

Darren, I have looked at the pics of your SL600 on the 'other' forum and it looks identical to the one that I have.. I cannot post pics on here, so I will
e-mail the pics to you.
ATB
Eric

Thanks Eric. So if the stock is the same it looks like Titan used the same main parts John told me about for the .177 that was released for sale. Have you ever come across another .22 out of interest?

Any ideas what you think this might be worth been 1 of 4 made (albeit I know its not likely to be a major collectors item)

[Herpquest]

Thanks Eric. So if the stock is the same it looks like Titan used the same main parts John told me about for the .177 that was released for sale. Have you ever come across another .22 out of interest?

Any ideas what you think this might be worth been 1 of 4 made (albeit I know its not likely to be a major collectors item)

Prior to buying this one, I wasn't aware that Titan had supplied any of these. As for being a major collectors item, I know of one collector who would
jump at the chance to buy both yours and mine.

[dazzer252]

Hi Eric,

Here is the link to John's facebook page as per my email (if the link works!) which has the original flyer for the Titan SL series:

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?s...type=1&theater

[dazzer252]

Prior to buying this one, I wasn't aware that Titan had supplied any of these. As for being a major collectors item, I know of one collector who would
jump at the chance to buy both yours and mine.

From what I can gather there were very few sold even in .177 (as the SL800) but exact numbers seem hard to find out so could be very low. I got the impression that there was only ever one batch of main parts from china that were delivered (virtually all .177) so this would suggest that not many were made and sold in the UK. I have looked all over the web and have found only 1 or 2 references to people selling these (all in the UK) and both of these were in .177. You might want to post on the facebook page and see if anyone else has one in .177 and knows how many were produced?

The letter we have from Titan would also back up what John has told me that these were never produced in .22 (SL600) in the end, other than the 4 prototype versions.

Nice to find another Titan SL owner on here so quickly though

[dazzer252]

I would still be interested in a valuation for this if any other forum members can review the above information, etc? Sorry but I still dont appear to be able to post the photos but they are on the "other" forum if anyone would like to take a look.

Thanks in advance

Darren

PS; the price is just for my reference as we have no plans to sell it as this time.

[Herpquest]

Any ideas what you think this might be worth been 1 of 4 made (albeit I know its not likely to be a major collectors item.

As no-one else has bothered to give a valuation, I would hazzard a guess at £250. This figure is based soley on the fact that it is basically a BAM XS-B3
with a 'custom' stock, albeit that the SL600/800 appears to have had more attention paid to their construction i.e. welds, finish etc., than the basic XS-B3.
ATB
Eric

[gingernut]

Thats what I was thinking.
A lower post shows that a Mohawk flew away at £200