Carbining a Tornado?

[Dave S]

I swapped a Firestick Imade for a tatty, non working Relum Tornado.
It needs various bits making / sorting, all doable.
However IMO the barrel is to long. I think it would look better if it finished at the underlever clip.
Has anyone done this before? Im guessing the barrel is probably not choked, due to the cheapness of the original.

Other (slightly related) question. How do I tell what mainspring is in it? It has a single, not the double one I thought they came with.
I cant get it to cock with the spring in, it seems to jam up. Its a round section, with ground ends, so not a OX replacement
Which BSA spring is a common swap? How big are they (coils /wire size)?

cheers

Dave

[jackgee]

Hi there,
If i remember correctly Gerald Cardew worked out that you only need a very short barrel on a spring gun, i cant remember the shortest length needed but im sure its well documented and only about five inches or so, and indeed a long barrel could be detrimental, as full power is developed in this short distance and the pellet could be on its way (in air) before the extra time needed for a pellet to leave a long barrel and thereby introducing recoil and the inaccuracy this would incur. I hope you can understand what im saying even though my wording may not be great?
Also dont assume that they are not choked because the guns were cheap, it is neither time consuming nor expensive to choke a barrel, some well known manufacturers have choked barrels after being shortened by simply squeezing the barrel end in something resembling a four jaw chuck to create the narrowing effect.
The above info is only relevant to a spring gun as longer barrels in PCP give more power to a point.
Hope this is of some use to you and it would be nice to see the before and after photos of this project since for all the ridicule that the relums come in for they were buget priced guns and filled a gap in the market
Jack

[ggggr]

I swapped a Firestick Imade for a tatty, non working Relum Tornado.
It needs various bits making / sorting, all doable.
However IMO the barrel is to long. I think it would look better if it finished at the underlever clip.
Has anyone done this before? Im guessing the barrel is probably not choked, due to the cheapness of the original.

Other (slightly related) question. How do I tell what mainspring is in it? It has a single, not the double one I thought they came with.
I cant get it to cock with the spring in, it seems to jam up. Its a round section, with ground ends, so not a OX replacement
Which BSA spring is a common swap? How big are they (coils /wire size)?

cheers

Dave

Hi Dave---Meteor Mk1- mk5 mainspring is the common one to replace the 2 Relum springs.I think a Mk6 will go in but makes it harsher. I did hear of a Relum that had the barrel and the cocking lever cut down. I,ve cut a few barrels down in my time,but only on stuff that has been cut already and left rough. I,ve cut them with a Hacksaw,filed them up,done the end with a small countersink and then with wet or dry paper on the countersink. You can finish them off with grinding paste and a ball bearing. An engineer like you should be up to the job.
If it is the earlier Tornado http://www.gunspares.co.uk/shopdispl...=Tornado+-+322 then the trigger is pretty crappy because it engages on a tang sticking out from the piston. Read the "idiots guide" to save me typing other problems. Mick has converted one of these to O ring piston head and there is a parachute seal conversion I think?
The super Tornado (I,ve never stripped one but have done the Taurus 527) has a better trigger set up and cocking arm.
The normal Tornado absolutely wreck my tennis elbow, with its crappy cocking linkage set up that loses all mechanical advantage about half way through. Interesting to play with. How about altering the linkage to give easier cocking? I stuck a Mk6 meteor spring in mine for a bit.Certainly pretty powerful but prefer the earlier springs or even something softer.

[Dave S]

Yep, earlier tornado, with the tang sticking out of the piston.
Out with the hacksaw then. I can easily make a piloted crownig tool, and I might add some PTFE buttons to the piston, mostly because I can

Got some leather soaking overnight to make a new piston seal. Should keep me out of trouble for a few days anyway...

Dave

[I. J.]

Ive often encouraged the carbining of Relum Tornadoes.

ATB
Ian

[edbear2]

Ive often encouraged the carbining of Relum Tornadoes.

ATB
Ian

Think you miss-understand the definition Ian...the O.P. means cutting maybe 5" just from the crown back, not cutting EVERY 5" so it ends up in 9 separate parts like you mean

ATB, Ed

[Johnc61]

Interesting thread. Ive always seen Relums around as cheap "hit a barn door" kind of rifles, useful as a door stop. But someone designed them, theres a lot of metal and wood put together. Are they really as bad as their reputation? Can they be made accurate and smooth?

[edbear2]

Interesting thread. Ive always seen Relums around as cheap "hit a barn door" kind of rifles, useful as a door stop. But someone designed them, theres a lot of metal and wood put together. Are they really as bad as their reputation? Can they be made accurate and smooth?

There are kits out there;

http://www.woodfield-gcp.co.uk/springtuning.htm

And a review here;

http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2009/...do-part-1.html

And I would imagine that the normal tuning (top hat/guide/spring) would help no-end. They do have a fan base, and I do actually like the look of them, it's just the construction quality that puts me off personally.

So..you could probably smooth one out a lot, but I don't know how good the tap / barrel assembly and trigger action is regarding accuracy...someone out there must have tried all this, and hopefully can post on here.

I actually had one a couple of years ago, and was thinking about seeing what could be done, including replacing the sights for something more substantial (I had a Parker Hale unit spare at the time, so it was going to be along the lines of a Webley Supertarget).

Unfortunately it was a .22, and I really wanted a .177.....did they do them in .177?, as all the ones that pop up seem to be the bigger size

ATB, Ed

[Johnc61]

Hmm, they all seem to be .22 that ive seen. Try contacting these people (have a look at the photo! - scroll down): http://www.proteksupplies.co.uk/page4.html

Ive been in their store and its an aladdins cave of airguns.

ATB John

[I. J.]

Think you miss-understand the definition Ian...the O.P. means cutting maybe 5" just from the crown back, not cutting EVERY 5" so it ends up in 9 separate parts like you mean

ATB, Ed

ATB
Ian

[Hsing-ee]

ATB
Ian

you gone soft on the donkey? y'll be riding around on an Ural with a millets parka on next

[Dave S]

Unfortunately it was a .22, and I really wanted a .177.....did they do them in .177?, as all the ones that pop up seem to be the bigger size

Actually that was one of the things to try once I get it working, drilling and sleeving the barrel down to .177 so I can shoot it indoors.
Not quite figured out how Im going to ensure the loading tap lines up yet.

Construction wise they seems to be ok, the cylinder is made from reasonably heavy steel, the breech area is a single hunk of steel.
The piston is relieved except at the rear, so it doesnt drag to badly. I suspect the biggest problem will be the very simple trigger design.

Dave

[cooksey13]

dont chambers or protek do a .177 barrel and tap for it?

[cptman]

If you carbine it at least it will fit into the dustbin easier!

[Hsing-ee]

dont chambers or protek do a .177 barrel and tap for it?

The demand for that would be nearly zero. There are some .177 Relum underlevers around, ask Gedfinn2, but I think they may have a shorter compression chamber. The .22 is a better bet for tuning though, more efficient. The triggers are not great and a tap which closes upwards isn't such a great idea. If Protek guts are fitted and the tap very carefully shimmed and tweaked to fit exactly the centre line of the bore then maybe it would be OK, but many people have tried tuning these guns and they have not got more than 9.5 ft/lbs and indifferent accuracy out of them. You could spend 50 hours and £100 on one of them and still only get the performance of a BSA Meteor that had been sitting in a shed for 15 years.

However, if you want an engineering challenge, try to sort a mechanism to give the Tornado a direct-loading breech. There is plenty of meat in the breech area, you just have to work out some kind of roller-breech or trapdoor. That would be interesting.