Proposed New Scoring for MPL 2013.

[zooma]

Hi Bob

As an independant interested person I think your scoring system is spot on, now simpler, and correctly reflects the balance between the recoiling and recoilless results.

The thing your guys are missing is that a good shot perfectly executed with a recoilless pistol is still a 10.9, the recoiless system does not throw the shot at random. But a bad shot is punished more with a recoiller, what would be a 9 or 8 is helped in the fault direction by the recoil and the same fault result can be any thing from a 7 or much worse.

The last time I shot both, an LP2 compact and a Walther LP53 (now that's a serious kicker!) my 10 mt average at that time was 92 with the LP2, shooting the LP 53 after a bit of practice to get used to the 1380 gm trigger I found that the results of good shots were still 9's and 10's. But shots I would have called worse with the LP2 such as 8's or 7's were 6's or even 5's and the occasional 4 with the 53, so you can loose the handicap on one shot, but shoot well and a score including handicap of 50 or more is easily possible.

So shooting well with the LP 53 I would expect the score to be little different, but as we rarely shoot 49's or 50's with top class PCP's (even the top people don't!) even a lot of good cards have 8's and the occasional 7, and I score cards from national team shooters so I see a representative sample.

So to be totaly fair the recoil/recoilless handicap would have to be different depending on the shooters standard as the 16 points a round with a good shooter would be too much, but that is totaly impracticle, and lets face it a top class shooter is unlikly to enter or if they do then shoot it with an LP 53!

I think your suggested system of standard scoring plus 4 a card is very close to being perfect.


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I have been given permission to quote this email (anonymously) by the sender who is a very experienced and high standard air pistol shooter with some considerbale experience to share with us, and he is also someone who likes to be aware of all that goes on in the air pistol world, but is not a contributor to this forum.........so my thanks go to the sender for these well reasoned observations - your thoughts are very helpful and much appreciated.

[karandras]

I have an idea and if no one else wants to do it, i'd be happy to do it myself.

Take every card shot with a kicker from every shooter in every round so far and note what the scores would have been under the the new proposed rules and how many bonus points each card has recieved.

Take an average of the number of bonus points recieved and see how that fits in with the new proposed rules.

We should also take all the cards from the SSP / recoilless pistols and see what thier scores would be under the new rules.

This would then give us pretty concrete evidence as to what the kicker bonus should be and how the scores would be effected if we used the new proposed rules.

What do you guys think?

Andi

[mrfixit]

I think the whole exercise has been a success beyond anyone's wildest dreams,and Bob should be congratulated for driving his idea forward.
Regarding the scoring,yes scoring in one direction has to be the way forward and personally I don't think +4 is that far off the mark if at all,sure we have a few shots that are shooting remarkably well with kickers but we don't want to penalise them and drive them away from those guns.The vast majority of kicker shooters the 4 points will be needed to make them competitive anyway.
After all as has been said on this thread it can all go horribly wrong very quickly with a kicker.
My vote goes to Bobs new proposal.
Steve
Plus TC1 can't shoot a kicker for love nor money.LOL

[zooma]

[QUOTE=mrfixit;5731460]I think the whole exercise has been a success beyond anyone's wildest dreams,and Bob should be congratulated for driving his idea forward.
Regarding the scoring,yes scoring in one direction has to be the way forward and personally I don't think +4 is that far off the mark if at all,sure we have a few shots that are shooting remarkably well with kickers but we don't want to penalise them and drive them away from those guns.The vast majority of kicker shooters the 4 points will be needed to make them competitive anyway.
After all as has been said on this thread it can all go horribly wrong very quickly with a kicker.
My vote goes to Bobs new proposal.
Steve
Plus TC1 can't shoot a kicker for love nor money.LOL[/QUOTE,

Thanks Steve,

After reading all the contributions so far, I am keen to press on with the +4 bonus points, but I would not be surprised if at the end of our second season in June 2013 we took another look at it.

We do want to continue to encourage the kickers to keep shooting in the MPL and we can all see the progress they are making, but I am also aware that if they do keep getting better it may be the recoiless shooters that become penalised!

With this in mind I hope everyone will agree to press on with the original proposal to simplify the scoring and work with the +4 per card for the kickers until the end of the second season in June, and if we find we have been too generous with the bonus we can look at it again then as the aim is only to give an eqaul oportunity for all MPL shooters irrespective of the type of MPL pistol they choose to use.

[mrfixit]

My only gripe with the comp.is the scores.We really do need to find a way of recording and some form of league table,that will be a one stop shop,so to speak.

[I. J.]

With this in mind I hope everyone will agree to press on with the original proposal to simplify the scoring and work with the +4 per card for the kickers until the end of the second season in June, and if we find we have been too generous with the bonus we can look at it again then as the aim is only to give an eqaul oportunity for all MPL shooters irrespective of the type of MPL pistol they choose to use.

It gets my vote.

My only gripe with the comp.is the scores.We really do need to find a way of recording and some form of league table,that will be a one stop shop,so to speak.

Steve,

All MPL scores, from both teams are displayed on the notice board at the indoor range within a few days at the end of each and every round. The shot cards are given to Geoff at R.M.T.C. who has kindly agreed to check and collate the scores and, of course (with a bit of banter) they are posted on here!

ATB
TC1

[gordon]

Position eloquently stated Bob, i`m in full agreement

[zooma]

Hi Kandras - You are welcome to do this if you would like to do so.......but it will only record historical information, and we can see strong progress from the kickers recently which will make an element of your research a bit dated as the kickers never started anything like as well as they are going now.

With or without your historical analysis I think we still need to look forward with the benefit of what we can see happening now.

At the moment +4 points per card ( +16 points per round) may seem a but high - mainly due to the progress the kicker shooters have made very recently - but if we want to keep things as they are now the +4 bonus should do this.

If we look at the last two rounds scores, maybe +3 would be a better guess ( +12 points per round) - but we don't want to discourage the kickers in any way so maybe one change at a time is enough so I suggest that we stick with the proposal and take a look at it again in June and see how good our guesswork has been.

My guess is that we won't see much in the way of change - and there not too much wrong with that!

[karandras]

Hi Kandras - You are welcome to do this if you would like to do so.......but it will only record historical information, and we can see strong progress from the kickers recently which will make an element of your research a bit dated as the kickers never started anything like as well as they are going now.

With or without your historical analysis I think we still need to look forward with the benefit of what we can see happening now.

At the moment +4 points per card ( +16 points per round) may seem a but high - mainly due to the progress the kicker shooters have made very recently - but if we want to keep things as they are now the +4 bonus should do this.

If we look at the last two rounds scores, maybe +3 would be a better guess ( +12 points per round) - but we don't want to discourage the kickers in any way so maybe one change at a time is enough so I suggest that we stick with the proposal and take a look at it again in June and see how good our guesswork has been.

My guess is that we won't see much in the way of change - and there not too much wrong with that!

I'm happy to proceed with the +4 bonus, my suggestion was purely to enable people to see exactly how the new rules would affect the scores and if a bonus of +4 was over the top.

Personally as the SSP's could now be gaining up to 5 extra points per card, the +4 seems fine to me.

If you can ask geoff to bring the cards on tuesday night i'll do it anyway and add in novembers when they are done.

Cheers,

Andi

[zooma]

Thanks Andi - all offers of help are greatfully accepted.

It could be very interesting.

[Nocity]

God loves a Trier, Bob

I’m still of the opinion that 16 point for a Springer is too many. All this SSP could still be gaining 5 extra points just does not wash, you have the same odds as losing 12 points. Inward scoring ok, 16 points start, not for me.

[zooma]

God loves a Trier, Bob

I’m still of the opinion that 16 point for a Springer is too many. All this SSP could still be gaining 5 extra points just does not wash, you have the same odds as losing 12 points. Inward scoring ok, 16 points start, not for me.

I agree with your sentiments - especially the first one about "God loves a Trier" and also have some concerns about the 4 points per card too - but not enough to stop us giving it a go in the next 6 month MPL season.

The reasons for this are many and although this will keep the situtaion more or less as it is now, it may also shade the difference back slightly as it would have been possible (in theory at least) to actually gain up to 6 points per card using the old system, wheras with this new scoring system the maximum possible gain can only be 4 points!

In real life, I am not expecting it to make much difference to what we have now, but any freak top end scores can only ever gain 4 points and not 6 as they can now.

At the end of June we should look at it again, and with the new scoring system it will be much easier to make any adjustments (if they are needed) - and these don't have to be as big a change as a whole point either, so we can in future fine tune it much better than we can now with the old system - for example if we were to have a 3.5 point kicker bonus per card this would reduce the 4 card bonus to 14 from 16, and a 3.25 bonus would reduce it to 13, and a 3 point bonus would make it 12 points and so on.

The new scoring system has a lot going for it and i think we should definately introduce it in January and start it with the +4 points per card and see how it shakes down by the end of June.