[QUOTE=mrfixit;5731460]I think the whole exercise has been a success beyond anyone's wildest dreams,and Bob should be congratulated for driving his idea forward.
Regarding the scoring,yes scoring in one direction has to be the way forward and personally I don't think +4 is that far off the mark if at all,sure we have a few shots that are shooting remarkably well with kickers but we don't want to penalise them and drive them away from those guns.The vast majority of kicker shooters the 4 points will be needed to make them competitive anyway.
After all as has been said on this thread it can all go horribly wrong very quickly with a kicker.
My vote goes to Bobs new proposal.
Plus TC1 can't shoot a kicker for love nor money.LOL[/QUOTE,
After reading all the contributions so far, I am keen to press on with the +4 bonus points, but I would not be surprised if at the end of our second season in June 2013 we took another look at it.
We do want to continue to encourage the kickers to keep shooting in the MPL and we can all see the progress they are making, but I am also aware that if they do keep getting better it may be the recoiless shooters that become penalised!
With this in mind I hope everyone will agree to press on with the original proposal to simplify the scoring and work with the +4 per card for the kickers until the end of the second season in June, and if we find we have been too generous with the bonus we can look at it again then as the aim is only to give an eqaul oportunity for all MPL shooters irrespective of the type of MPL pistol they choose to use.
My only gripe with the comp.is the scores.We really do need to find a way of recording and some form of league table,that will be a one stop shop,so to speak.
All MPL scores, from both teams are displayed on the notice board at the indoor range within a few days at the end of each and every round. The shot cards are given to Geoff at R.M.T.C. who has kindly agreed to check and collate the scores and, of course (with a bit of banter) they are posted on here!
Position eloquently stated Bob, i`m in full agreement
Personally as the SSP's could now be gaining up to 5 extra points per card, the +4 seems fine to me.
If you can ask geoff to bring the cards on tuesday night i'll do it anyway and add in novembers when they are done.
Thanks Andi - all offers of help are greatfully accepted.
It could be very interesting.
God loves a Trier, Bob
Iím still of the opinion that 16 point for a Springer is too many. All this SSP could still be gaining 5 extra points just does not wash, you have the same odds as losing 12 points. Inward scoring ok, 16 points start, not for me.
The reasons for this are many and although this will keep the situtaion more or less as it is now, it may also shade the difference back slightly as it would have been possible (in theory at least) to actually gain up to 6 points per card using the old system, wheras with this new scoring system the maximum possible gain can only be 4 points!
In real life, I am not expecting it to make much difference to what we have now, but any freak top end scores can only ever gain 4 points and not 6 as they can now.
At the end of June we should look at it again, and with the new scoring system it will be much easier to make any adjustments (if they are needed) - and these don't have to be as big a change as a whole point either, so we can in future fine tune it much better than we can now with the old system - for example if we were to have a 3.5 point kicker bonus per card this would reduce the 4 card bonus to 14 from 16, and a 3.25 bonus would reduce it to 13, and a 3 point bonus would make it 12 points and so on.
The new scoring system has a lot going for it and i think we should definately introduce it in January and start it with the +4 points per card and see how it shakes down by the end of June.
Last edited by zooma; 19-11-2012 at 02:21 PM.
Just a simple point to anyone who thinks +4 is to much of an advantage, springer's are quite cheap feel free to go and buy one as most of us seem to be doing. Problem solved.
This is a very competetive and good series that not only give's the best competition at an affordable price - but also the best banter - which to some of us is even more important!
If at the end of June 2013 (when the second MPL series is completed) we find that all the kickers are running away with it, or the opposite, that they become so disadvantaged they become uncompetetive (and it discourages anyone from using them), then it will be easy to tweak the bonus points either way in time for the third MPL series from July to December 2013..............and so on.
Not having a crystal ball is clearly a major disadvantage for me, but we have not done too badly this season and got things about right, and I rather expect we will be just as lucky again next season - but we will have made the scoring a lot easier for everyone to understand.
Last edited by zooma; 21-11-2012 at 08:43 PM.
Thanks for the advise, I'll try not to have an opinion in future! Wouldn't want to spoil what has been a fun comp to take part in. Oh is your pistol a ssp by any chance? Sorry couldn't resist happy shooting!
The first round of the 2nd MPL series ( January - June 2013) see's the change to the inward scoring system for all types of MPL legal pistols.
All Kickers gain a bonus 4 points per card during this period, but I share the concerns of Nocity and others that this may be just a little too kind to them and suggest we consider dropping this to a 3 (or even 2) point bonus for the start of the 3rd MPL series ( July - December 2013) - depending on what we see during the second series.
We can all see how things pan-out between now and the start of the 3rd series, but we must encourage the use of the kickers as they are a very important element of our MPL series, but as more shooters turn to them and become ever more proficient with their use we do stand the danger of them "running away with it" and making it a positive disadvantage to shoot with a recoiless springer or SSP.
The idea of the kicker bonus is to even-out the disadvantage of using a recoiling pistol - but NOT to the extent that the majority of pistols ( that are recoiless) become the disadvantaged class.
Changing the scoring system to "inward scoring" for all types is a fairly significant change so we cannot know until after we have used it for a season just how this will work-out, so we will start with the new system and the 4 point kicker bonus and run with it for the second series, but we will look to see if we need to make a final "tweak" regarding the actual size of the kicker bonus before we start the third series in July2013.
Last edited by zooma; 24-12-2012 at 01:22 PM.
Well we have now completed the first round of the second series of the MPL, and the first to be scored under the revised scoring method that makes it much easier to understand and to see what is really happening.
The immediate feed-back is that nocity may well have been right when he argued that +4 bonus points was too much to give to the "kickers" for every card giving a (almost) free of charge 16 point bonus over the 4 cards we shoot in every round.
I am guessing that we have to live with it until June when the second series ends, but first impressions are that even +2 points per card may well be a tad on the generous side ( + 8 points free of charge per 4 cards shot ) but +4 is just too much!
Part of the reason is that several of the top scoring "kickers" have been modified beyond the standard manufacturers specification with re-worked internals and custom fitted anatomical grips that moves them far away from the standard pistol we were considering when these rules were first written.
Maybe we should consider a sub-class of kicker to accommodate these "Super-Kickers"?.......but that starts to get complicated.
I am not in any way against the progress being made by the ingenuity and development of those that have made the effort to improve the basic air pistol to a more thorough-bred species of superb MPL specific "Super-Kickers" - I think it is brilliant - but I also think the rules need to acknowledge and accommodate this progress as the only reason for having the bonus points is to give an "even playing field"- and now it looks like the Super-Kickers have tipped the advantage very much in their favour.
There are also some very good shooters that we have been fortunate enough to have join us in our series using kickers, and their talent is acknowledged - but even they may appreciate some stiffer competition that is not provided with the bonus points we have at the moment?
As somebody suggested last year - we can all go and get a cheap kicker if we want to have the same advantage, so that gives us both sides of the debate to consider.
We have another 5 rounds before June, so lets see if the recoilless MPL shooters can make the same sort of progress as the kickers have made - if they do, then we may not be thinking the 4 point per card bonus is that bad after all come the end of the season!