.22 Hornet loads in my CZ 527

[HandyAndy]

well before you do that just get remmy cases, lil gun and 35grain v max. replicate mr smiths recipe that you know works in the gun, assuming he didny have issues feeding from the mag.


Nice post time

I know and I made it in to work for 07:45 this morning too

out on the lash tonight, daughters 18 th birthday party in a nightclub . . . .

I would, but.... the previous owner cant remember the OAL he used to load his rounds too? so that puts paid to that idea???

[Blobby159]

I have recently acquired a CZ 527 in .22 Hornet. The previous owner had told me the recipe for the loads were lilgun and 35 gr VMAX, however I was unable to get 35gr VMAX, so on checking the load data, I noticed that the lilgun load was a compressed load. Having had issues with compressed loads before I decided to give that a miss. Issues in that when I tried a compressed load in my .243 I was unable to get all the powder in the case.

I have settled for H4198 as it uses 10.5 grains on a 35 and a 40 gr boolit. So having acquired some 36 gr hollow points and some 40 gr VMAX I set to last night and loaded some up. Even with the lesser charge, it was still almost to the top of the rim, only a few mm off, so even this load is a compressed load???

I went up to the range and had issues hitting the paper at 100 yards, after realising that the shots were all low and off to the left. I managed to get some on the sheet, but the groups were not fantastic.

I have since put a case in the breech with a boolit lightly in the end and closed up the bolt on it so that it gives the correct length to the lands. There is quite a jump to the lands from the published OAL in the load data and the length I have measured out today. Only other snag is that the magazine is restricted in what length it will accept. I don't want to be messing about feeding rounds in by hand at night as I will be using it for rabbiting and foxing not to mention a few more uses.

Cutting to the chase I am looking to reduce the powder weight to say 9 grains and make up some more rounds to try out, the thinking being will be to make the round a little faster as the space in the cart should increase the pressure a little.

Has anyone tried a lesser charge in .22 Hornet in this way, with a slightly heavier boolit? How would I go about calculating if the lesser charge was at a safe pressure, is there a formula out there?

-------------------------

You could try using alternative powders for your reloads here, as I have done in the passed. I found Viht N110 gave me EXCELLENT accuracy in my Anschutz .22 Hornet without it having to be a compressed load, as did Alliant 2400 propellant, and Vectan SP3, the latter is a good one in my loads!! Another good powder I found was Hogdons H4227, as full a case as you can get before it is compressed.

You could also just reduce your load of Lil'gun. I found that about 12.5gr gave me good accuracy and muzzle velocities.

I too found that the bullet jump from case to rifling lands in my Anschutz is quite large, but that rounds made up to bring this to the ideal minimum would not load into the rifle magazine. A pain! So I just build my rounds to just load and feed from the mags and find accuracy is yet excellent.

Good luck. The Hornet is a much maligned and misunderstood round and it is also underrated. I have used mine for many years to take both rabbit and fox at all shootable ranges out to around 175yds - occasionally even further - and never had any problems (except that it will really mess up rabbits hit inside of about 70yds) Be aware of that if you want to eat them and only headshoot for that purpose.

[RURALRIMFIRE]

I too used to use 13 grains of Lilgun and a 35 grain v-max in my Cz 527. That's using Winchester brass. I certainly don't think you could get any more powder in Very accurate load though. I now have a Weihrauch in .22 Hornet and use the same loads in that...with the same result. I also ended up loading the longest OAL which would fit in the magazine. Good luck with yours!

[HandyAndy]

Thanks for the tips gents. I will be continuing to try any feasible solutions as my latest attempt has resulted in a strange one. See pic, this was a result of a shot taken at 40 yards with a 36 gr hollow point bullet and 9.5gr of H4198 propellant.
piccy and this piccy 2
The load is one gr lower than the recommended for the bullet weight and the propellant, I had hoped that it would have increased the pressure a tad and helped the jump to the lands???? It did strike closer to the mark. But sideways???????

Testing and development will have to wait now until after the festivities, but I'll be keeping an eye on any mores suggestions.

[Hornet 6]

but I'll be keeping an eye on any mores suggestions.

Probably a good idea, reloading for a hornet is very straightforward, lots of people do it without a problem and get good accuracy.
But they all have one thing in common, they read a manual, pick a powder from the top of the list and start with the starting load given for that powder and bullet.


The most popular powders are probably H110 and Lil'Gun, have a look at a burn rate chart and see where they are compared to your choices so far.
Next, load the rounds to book length, forget about loading to the lands, you will only give your self a headache (or worse) it won't shoot any better either.
It can be as simple as using a Lee Loader, or you can use all the equipment available, either way it's your choice.
But if one thing is true of the hornet, possibly more so than any other calibre it is this, brass preparation is about 95% of a good accurate repeatable load.
I load and have loaded for .222, .223, 6mmPPC and .243 as well as for my Hornet, all except the hornet I can just resize throw a load and stuff a bullet in.
The Hornet gets the following every single time, de-prime, trim for length and de-burr inside and out, then a good session in the ultrasonic cleaner.
Once completely dry, neck size with a Lee Collet die, flair case neck with a Lyman "M" die, seat a primer, 11.5 grains of H110 and seat a 35 grain V-max.
Last but not least is a light crimp with a Lee factory crimp die, the resulting ammo always shoots into half an inch at 100 yards.
I could be a bit out on powder load, or a damaged bullet tip and it will still be better than an inch at 100 yards, mess the crimp up and you will miss a 100 yard bunny head.

Neil.

[minkstone]

Well, I have had a measure of the longest AOL that will fit in the magazine and the test gauge I made by closing the bolt on a cart with a loose fitted bullet in the end, it is a staggering 5.53mm between the two. So that to me is a right bloody big jump from the case to the lands? What will stop the bullet from leaving the case twisted and entering the rifling on the skew?

Would it be worth modifying the magazine to remove some of the plastic block in the rear of the mag, then have a new follower bent up a little longer to replace the original one? This way I would be able to load nearer the lands and set a reasonable OAL to further the testing?

Decisions, decisions . . . . . . .

Andy, with all respect you are making something that is SO easy... difficult. Why are you being "anal" about the jump to the rifling?....bullets do NOT have to be on or in the lands to acheive best accuracy, light bullets dont mind a "jump" (i have shot very accurate rifles with over 90thou jump to the lands). If you source some remington brass 35gr v-max, and some Li'llGun powder, seat to "mag length" as other experienced members have suggested,and simply work up a load and enjoy yourself.
I have owned 4 Hornets in the past and found them easy to load for, attention must however be paid to accurate "case prepping" ...

Regards.

[HandyAndy]

Probably a good idea, reloading for a hornet is very straightforward, lots of people do it without a problem and get good accuracy.
But they all have one thing in common, they read a manual, pick a powder from the top of the list and start with the starting load given for that powder and bullet.


The most popular powders are probably H110 and Lil'Gun, have a look at a burn rate chart and see where they are compared to your choices so far.
Next, load the rounds to book length, forget about loading to the lands, you will only give your self a headache (or worse) it won't shoot any better either.
It can be as simple as using a Lee Loader, or you can use all the equipment available, either way it's your choice.
But if one thing is true of the hornet, possibly more so than any other calibre it is this, brass preparation is about 95% of a good accurate repeatable load.
I load and have loaded for .222, .223, 6mmPPC and .243 as well as for my Hornet, all except the hornet I can just resize throw a load and stuff a bullet in.
The Hornet gets the following every single time, de-prime, trim for length and de-burr inside and out, then a good session in the ultrasonic cleaner.
Once completely dry, neck size with a Lee Collet die, flair case neck with a Lyman "M" die, seat a primer, 11.5 grains of H110 and seat a 35 grain V-max.
Last but not least is a light crimp with a Lee factory crimp die, the resulting ammo always shoots into half an inch at 100 yards.
I could be a bit out on powder load, or a damaged bullet tip and it will still be better than an inch at 100 yards, mess the crimp up and you will miss a 100 yard bunny head.

Neil.

Cheers for the feed back Neil, I have had a look at the burn rate in the Lee manual, the latest version. Following the link, http://www.reloadbench.com/burn.html The difference between them, Lilgun is at 69, the H110 is at 71 and the H4198 comes in at 86. Whilst looking for the burn rate chart, I came across this article from Chuck Hawks, as it makes interesting reading. http://www.chuckhawks.com/powder_burn_rate.htm
But I still cant understand why a 5 gr increase in bullet weight and a load out of the Lee book fails to group even when it was made to the same spec?

The only thing different to your process is that I do not flair the case with the Lyman "M" die before seating the bullet. I have used virgin brass, but it was all checked and prepared in advance of loading, with a load that utilised less propellant (than the LILGUN recipe)

Andy, with all respect you are making something that is SO easy... difficult. Why are you being "anal" about the jump to the rifling?....bullets do NOT have to be on or in the lands to acheive best accuracy, light bullets dont mind a "jump" (i have shot very accurate rifles with over 90thou jump to the lands). If you source some remington brass 35gr v-max, and some Li'llGun powder, seat to "mag length" as other experienced members have suggested,and simply work up a load and enjoy yourself.
I have owned 4 Hornets in the past and found them easy to load for, attention must however be paid to accurate "case prepping" ...

Regards.

Minkstone, I am not wanting to come across as being anal, I have been guided along the way of re loading when I got into it for my .243. I have been given advice from BBS members, the guy I got my press and other re loading kit from, to mention a few. One of those pieces of advice was to use an empty prepared case, with a bullet of choice and to lightly secure the bullet into the mouth of the case and insert it carefully into the breech and to chamber it, closing the bolt down a couple of times to ensure it is correctly set in the lands. Then when this is done the round can be saved as a reference piece whilst developing loads. Nothing anal about that? Is there?

As I said above, I am frustrated at the results I have got with this cal. after getting a 100 gr SP hitting 1" high at 100 yards with the .243 and also developing a 70 gr BT load to hit the same POI at the same range, thing of mystery, many said I would not get there but I did. I am not about to let this lil Hornet bring me to tears

I am, however looking to go and get a tub of lilgun and try and order in some 35 gr VMAX bullets to make a fresh start. I think a batch of remmy or winnie brass may be of help too.

After all, I am just after a 1" group at say 100 yards for fox and rabbit. I may push it a little further after but getting to there will be the ideal starting point.

Cheers again for the replies chaps..............

[21grains]

12g H110 w/Sierra 40g .223 Dia. Hornet SPBT in New Winchester Brass Only,and Neck Size only after first Fire Size.Winchester 680 Ball Power is next best.the American .224 Bullet's don't work well at all in a Brno Hornet (metric Barrel).Seat Bullet to Your Barrel, not length in Book,makes bigest difference along w/.223 Bullet.Good Luck a Great Cartrage and fun to Shoot P/Dog's with.....Franky

[tisme]

Dose it make a difference if it's metric or imperial ?

[no bull]

Minkstone, I am not wanting to come across as being anal, I have been guided along the way of re loading when I got into it for my .243. I have been given advice from BBS members, the guy I got my press and other re loading kit from, to mention a few. One of those pieces of advice was to use an empty prepared case, with a bullet of choice and to lightly secure the bullet into the mouth of the case and insert it carefully into the breech and to chamber it, closing the bolt down a couple of times to ensure it is correctly set in the lands. Then when this is done the round can be saved as a reference piece whilst developing loads. Nothing anal about that? Is there?

After all, I am just after a 1" group at say 100 yards for fox and rabbit. I may push it a little further after but getting to there will be the ideal starting point.

Cheers again for the replies chaps..............[/QUOTE]

You can only load a Hornet to the mag length (unless you single feed them and whats the point of that with this cal), the 35gn Vmax are short and stubby so you have not got a lot of choice to play with seating depth that's why you are being told by experienced reloaders and Hornet owners to load to max mag length or what the manuals say.

Why are you only wanting to achieve a 1" group at 100 yds IMO that's a feeble attempt at reloading as the hornet will or should produce bug hole groups. I also think you are being anal about the AOL and the jump to the lands especially in a Hornet .

[247sniper]

Hi guys,


I have achieved bug holes with my .22 Hornet with every bullet I have tried. 35 grain V-Max and 40 grian V-Max worked very well with 13.2 grains of lil-gun, i can fit 13.6 grains of lil-gun if I wish, but 40 grain V-Max sitting on top of 13.2 grains of lil-gun produces bug hole group and a MV of 3018ftps and 810 flbs of energy.

I never really found a poor load that did not work.

Steve.

[HandyAndy]

Dose it make a difference if it's metric or imperial ?

This is what I would like to find out?

Are the. 224 bullets wrong fodder for this rifle or should they be correct?


If I should be using .223 then I shall have to change?

[tisme]

Barrels made in 5.56 or .223 are made in different sizes, you can't say an imperial one will be bigger than and metric one or vice versa. It depends on the manufacturer. 5.56mm in inches = 0.218897638 inches and .223inch = 5.6642mm but from what I understand either barrels can be anything from .219 to .2246


Some bullets marked up as .223 measure .224!

I don't know what size a CZ .22 hornet barrel is but someone on here might. My CZ shoot v max .224s really well

[RURALRIMFIRE]

This is what I would like to find out?

Are the. 224 bullets wrong fodder for this rifle or should they be correct?


If I should be using .223 then I shall have to change?

I used .224 bullets for years in my CZ 527 and had consistently good results.

[Ruger_shooter]

From my reading it would appear that the .22 Hornet was standardised in 1932 to .224 inch bore diameter. Previous to this it was .223 inch bore diameter based on the old .22 WCF case. Anything produced from the mid 30's onwards would be .224 inches.