reloading costs

[zx10mike]

does anybody find that mil surp recohets more than vmax.

my budget is prob 200- 300

i would should maybe 800 rounds a year

erm it will do one is a varmint bullet one is not .should not be a problem on a safe range but not for hunting buddy

[^varmints^]

When I start reloading I intend to use ballistic tips. Is there a good reloading book for beginners

[zx10mike]

When I start reloading I intend to use ballistic tips. Is there a good reloading book for beginners

abc of reloading but mentoring is priceless buddy and everything can be found on the net.main thing use the correct bullet for the job, know your twist rate and bullet combo.choose an appropriate powder and start low and think safe but just as important enjoy a great hobby.
merry christmas pal

[^varmints^]

thanks , i have decided on 40 gr-50gr varmint type, my twist is quite odd though 1:8, many people have 1:12 twist rate. looking forward to a lee anniversary kit.

[zx10mike]

give the 40 a go but 1 in 8 prefer hevier bullets.

[loiner1965]

personally i would try the heavier 53 gn vmax

[DedIdick]

1 in 8" will stabilise up to 80gn bullets which are good for 600 yards and beyond.

75-80 gn bullet in front of around 23.5-24 grains of Varget, touched off with a Federal 205 (+/- 2800fps) and Bob's your Aunty.

[tacfoley]

One small point - reloading can often be more accurate [one of the reasons that we reload in the fust place] but it doesn't necessarily mean more 'powerful', whatever that means. The figures you see in the data handbooks are arrived at by actual testing of the loads listed, not by using your imagination, nor by using the erroneous supposition that if 25gr is 'good', then 30gr MUST be LOADS better.

Stick to the figures you find there, based on your own results using them, and you'll be fine - the warning notices in the loading data handbooks are there to offer good advice. My suggestion, based on almost fifty years of reloading, is to heed that advice.

Your choice.

tac

PS - in case of confusion - the heavier the bullet, the faster the rate of twist required to stabilise them. Your 1:8 will shoot the heaviest .223 bullets generally available, with a couple of provisos -

1. Heavier bullets are longer bullets - make sure that your chamber is cut to take them. You'll need to use the latest version of a Stoney Point gauge, or one of us here will advise you how to make an OAL gauge cheaply. The last thing you'll want to do is to have to force a round into the chamber by using the camming action of the bolt to carry out your final bullet seating for you - right into the grooves. Pressures may go sky-high instantly, and with most unpleasant results for you and those near you, if you can use your imagination.

2. Longer bullets often mean that your rifle, if is is a magazine feeder, will no longer take a round in the magazine, making it a single-shot rifle while using the longer bullets.

[Psychosomatic88]

. one of us here will advise you how to make an OAL gauge cheaply. The last thing you'll want to do is to have to force a round into the chamber by using the camming action of the bolt to carry out your final bullet seating for you - right into the grooves.

I'd be interested to hear about this. I borrowed the SP OAL gauge from a friend and all sorts of bullets from 40 through to 75 for the .223. However I can vaguely Remember trying to find the max OAL for my 8x57 mauser and really struggling. Tried sooting the bullets etc but the chamber and throat were very long and the bullet (big .323 200grain SMK) was only just held in the case mouth. At the moment I just load them to surplus length.

I'm wondering if I need to worry about the OAL for it at all and just carry on as I have been.

[tony h]

after you have brought all the reloading stuff, i reload using free brass of my mate, 55 grs and 24.6grs of vit n133, 7.1/2 br primers, cost come in about 26p per round

[tacfoley]

I'd be interested to hear about this. I borrowed the SP OAL gauge from a friend and all sorts of bullets from 40 through to 75 for the .223. However I can vaguely Remember trying to find the max OAL for my 8x57 mauser and really struggling. Tried sooting the bullets etc but the chamber and throat were very long and the bullet (big .323 200grain SMK) was only just held in the case mouth. At the moment I just load them to surplus length.

I'm wondering if I need to worry about the OAL for it at all and just carry on as I have been.

Assuming that you don't have a factory Remington 700 - a type of loose-chambered rifle that seems to have an endless leade and no obvious beginning to the rifled part of the barrel, then using longer than normal bullets - longer, that is that those of factory rounds, will necessitate you making a gauge to see where the bullet touches the beginning of the rifling. Most guns perfrom well when the bullet does not directly impinge on the rifling, but have a few thou start before engaging. This is called 'bullet-jump', and can vary depending on the actual ogival shape of the bullet as well as its actual length.

To make a gauge on the cheap, simply pick a fired case from that gun, and resize and decap it. Then, using a modeller's micro-saw or Dremel with a cutting disk, carefully cut three or four slots vertically in the neck of the case, extending down to the point where it begins to flare. A bullet can now be placed in the neck and held there simply by the slight amount of tension remaining in the neck.

Make sure that the bullet - of the kind that you are going to use, and no other - is just inserted in the case enough to hold it steady, and, holding the rifle vertically, VERY gently load it into the chamber and fully close the bolt. Then, open the gun slowly and carefully, and extract the case without touching the bullet in its new location - the place where it will have been pushed into the chamber as you closed the action.

Now measure it, using your calipers. You have now measured the precise length of a loaded round in YOUR gun with YOUR bullet in YOUR chamber, and your chamber only.

Reducing that length by stages of 0.005" and loading accordingly and working your way back up to the original figure - remembering NOT to load it to the ACTUAL figure that you measured - will give you a good idea about achieving accuracy. For instance - my Krico 650SS likes Palam Match bullets 15thou off the lands, but VLD bullets are a whole different ball game.

You will, of course, be advised with inummerable other methods of doing the same thing, as there area great many shooters out there who, one way or another, do the same kind of thing.

Read them all and make up your own mind.

tac

[tacfoley]

I'd be interested to hear about this. I borrowed the SP OAL gauge from a friend and all sorts of bullets from 40 through to 75 for the .223. However I can vaguely Remember trying to find the max OAL for my 8x57 mauser and really struggling. Tried sooting the bullets etc but the chamber and throat were very long and the bullet (big .323 200grain SMK) was only just held in the case mouth. At the moment I just load them to surplus length.

I'm wondering if I need to worry about the OAL for it at all and just carry on as I have been.

With any military surplus firearm, and those designed to emulate them, bear in mind that they are/were made from the onset to take a wide variation in the manufacturing tolerances of military ammunition from many sources. Your note that you are finding it hard to determine the OAL from sooting and so on was doomed to failure before you ever began. My 1897 Mauser will take a bullet a good four inches down the barrel before it fully engages....

Unless you are shooting a Swiss rifle of any kind, stick to the average stated OAL of the 7.92x57 Mauser cartridge - 100 million users can't ALL be wrong....

tac

[^varmints^]

thanks for the info i just got a sierra reloading manual and intend to browsw into it and get some ideas of what loads i can work with. i may ask about that oal guage someone has mentioned in the thread.

i have placed a wanted ad in the forum for .223 reloading gear.

thanks

[Psychosomatic88]

Assuming that you don't have a factory Remington 700 - a type of loose-chambered rifle that seems to have an endless leade and no obvious beginning to the rifled part of the barrel, then using longer than normal bullets - longer, that is that those of factory rounds, will necessitate you making a gauge to see where the bullet touches the beginning of the rifling. Most guns perfrom well when the bullet does not directly impinge on the rifling, but have a few thou start before engaging. This is called 'bullet-jump', and can vary depending on the actual ogival shape of the bullet as well as its actual length.

To make a gauge on the cheap, simply pick a fired case from that gun, and resize and decap it. Then, using a modeller's micro-saw or Dremel with a cutting disk, carefully cut three or four slots vertically in the neck of the case, extending down to the point where it begins to flare. A bullet can now be placed in the neck and held there simply by the slight amount of tension remaining in the neck.

Make sure that the bullet - of the kind that you are going to use, and no other - is just inserted in the case enough to hold it steady, and, holding the rifle vertically, VERY gently load it into the chamber and fully close the bolt. Then, open the gun slowly and carefully, and extract the case without touching the bullet in its new location - the place where it will have been pushed into the chamber as you closed the action.

Now measure it, using your calipers. You have now measured the precise length of a loaded round in YOUR gun with YOUR bullet in YOUR chamber, and your chamber only.

Reducing that length by stages of 0.005" and loading accordingly and working your way back up to the original figure - remembering NOT to load it to the ACTUAL figure that you measured - will give you a good idea about achieving accuracy. For instance - my Krico 650SS likes Palam Match bullets 15thou off the lands, but VLD bullets are a whole different ball game.

You will, of course, be advised with inummerable other methods of doing the same thing, as there area great many shooters out there who, one way or another, do the same kind of thing.

Read them all and make up your own mind.

tac

I trust your judgement and knowledge Tac, you know your stuff!

I remember what it was I used On the .223 now, Hornady lock amd load OAL gauge and had 2.470" max with 75 amax as an example.

I'm really trying to concentrate on the mauser for 2013 as I love the rifle and want to love shooting it and loading for it.

I just cut a case as per your above technique, although I lent my calipers to a friend for Xmas, so can't measure is exactly but I can show you my worry?


http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w...B5CD9D9B-1.jpg

On the left is a round loaded to the sierra manual spec, the right is the cut case loaded gently etc...mk1 eyeball says 3-4mm difference in OAL. My heart says begin loading .005" off and work back. My head is concerned at the large difference, but also aware it's a military clambering...

As an extra consideration I'm loading (so far only around 60-70 rounds ish) several grains above the sierra max, but then there is a legal consideration of .318" v .323" bores (mine is .323" being a kar98) and even American factory 8mm is loaded cold. This is probably why I'm way above the max. As an example, sierra max load of 45gn varget with 200 grain smk, at 100m to get it on the bull I had to set the rear iron sight to 300m (sight is calibrated for 2500fps 196gn from memory).

I'm now after slowly working up at around 49grains varget and 2500fps through the chrono so now bang on poa/poi.

Now I'm out of powder so need to decide to buy a big stock. And of course I want to get the OAL right. I loaded to the manual length as I couldn't get repeatable readings (+\- 0.01") from previous attempts, smoking a cartridge etc and wanted to be safe.

My .223 loading is fine and got it down to <.3MOA, decent velocity and no excessive pressure signs.

Varmints I also use the sierra manual and on the whole find it very good. The 8mm mauser is a odd cartridge due to the gew98 being .318" and kar98 being .323".

[tacfoley]

See what you mean about the diiference in OAL. If I were you, I would stick to loading to the orginal OAL and simply use better bullets and care and attention for better results. After all, no factory ammunition, apart from GP11, can compete with your own, right?

Remember too, that your military Mauser, if that's what you have, was doing just fine if it put three shots in 90mm at 100m, let alone the minute groups that folks seem to think are their birthright. Anything that did better, just like the Lee-Enfield, was set aside for 'better things'.

It's howling down with rain right now, so I'm not going out to the shed to check your VARGET loads for the 8mm Mauser, but please take great care not to get any round too short - even a slight difference, especially with the teeny calibres like the centre-fire .22s, can be very much NOT what what you want.

tac