Results 1 to 15 of 24

Thread: Two rifles HW95 / SMK 20S Comparison - An honest test -

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Bexhill-On-Sea
    Posts
    5,436

    Two rifles HW95 / SMK 20S Comparison - An honest test -

    I've wanted to do this for ages , SMK bought as clearance stock for £75, HW95 bought off here s/h for £160

    Some basic work has been done to both rifles -
    Cylinders & Pistons polished, SMK fitted with HW blade, synthetic guides, factory seals sized for each rifle. SMK factory spring, HW V Mach spring.

    A few interesting things, the HW had a score internally on inside of cylinder, straight, full length. It indicates non seemless tube being used. This should not have gone out for sale, it required specific honing of cylinder, (though not on area to locate trigger block too risky)
    By eye the SMK barrel appears slightly off true.
    SMK running at 12.5-14 ftlbs from new, off the shelf. This should not have gone out for sale.

    I had the work done above professionally to components, but have just assembled the rifles. The HW tops out at 11.2 with RWS super points which often are surprisingly efficient, and over 11 with AA / Falcon. The SMK hits 11.4 with AA and 10.7 with RWS pellets. Falcons around 11.2, so a pretty fair equal amount of power for a comparison.
    Interestingly the SMK was a doddle to re assemble, the copy being slightly simplified. I had to give up on the HW last night and carry on today, those breach shims are just awful to re locate, lost the safety and had to do again, then had to take out of stock as rear trigger guard nut had escaped.
    For ease of assembly , SMK, much easier around 1/3 rd the time.

    My intention is to pull barrels through, scope up with identical scopes in Sportsmatch mounts, fit identical Webley Pro-S silencers. I will update as I have time, with ease of zeroing( will find out if SMK barrel is OK then), accuracy etc etc after careful pellet selection.

    Considering the SMK came OTT from new and the HW had a massive FACTORY flaw, it's interesting neither should have been for sale, and that without some knowledge of air gunning and work by an air gunsmith, anyone ending up with either of these would have been on a highway to no where -

    I look forward to adding more information, honestly, over the next week or so -

    Update - Xmas Eve
    Rifles now have clean barrels cleaned to sparkle with bore cleaner, then carefully re leaded. Fitted with Webley Pro-S Silencers (no clipping checked), Sportsmatch one piece droop comp mounts with arrestor pin fitted in rear location hole holding Japanese Nikko 4X42, very robust clear scopes selling at £200 before JSR cleared them out. The barrels have the correct tension, ie don't drop under own weight, but aren't 'stiff'.The scopes are riding very close to action, you can't fit bikini covers over the front on the HW, just fits on SMK. Will check scope alignment with spirit level and plumb line next, then it's off to do some shooting -


    Right did some shooting today at last, Dec 27th. The slightly slimmer smk stock fits me better, but is a bit tractionless. Both rifles needed significant scope adjustment to zero in, a little disappointing, but not that unusual. The hw trigger is noticeably more refined, the hw firing action smoother, but then it has a v mach spring in. The smk was quite pleasant to shoot, not as smooth as the hw though. The hw was shooting thumbnails pretty quickly at 25 yards with falcon lights, so I didn't try anything else. The smk wouldn't group at first using Falcons, so I tried AA, similar. As I'd read it tightened up quickly with Superdomes. I couldn't get a group as tight as I wanted, but went back to the hw and the cold had probably disabled me by then so will continue next shooting session.

    A couple of things have become obvious though. Both rifles have a slightly wrong trigger reach for me, mr average. A drop in v mach full kit certainly makes a wacking improvement on a factory rifle, as I didn't find either of these 'a piece of cake' to shoot well with, and they are pretty well fettled, but with factory parts (excepting spring in hw) and guides. The SMK is suggesting being pellet fussy, and liking the least efficient pellets best, which is not ideal in sub 12ftlbs 22s.
    The hw feels more refined, more solid, the parts on the smk are obviously cheaper, and blindfolded , contrary to what I've read, it would be obvious these are quite different rifles, not just in the trigger dept.

    A couple more observations, considering I will be shooting these rifles more and carrying on with more detailed info (hopefully on a non sub zero day)

    Personally, I found that the latest spec T0-6 Diana 31 compact I have was a lot easier to work on (it has a kit fitted), and has outshot both of the above rifles in terms of accuracy. It's not a fair comparison, as neither the 95 or smk has a full tune kit fitted. Also I find that in uk sub 12ftlb 22 springers, the old UK Webley rifles, are 'EASY' to shoot well with, if set up carefully. I think V Mach in one of their Airgun Shooter articles a couple of years ago commented that guns with small swept volume seemed to behave very consistently, and my own experience agrees with that -

    Right, I look forward to more precision target shooting on a warmer day, with a wider range of pellets. Might try Bisley LRG in the smk, they often go well in barrels that don't warm to the 'usual suspects' ...to be continued

    Thank goodness for friends with barns in this weather ! 28th Dec
    So, on my way to reaching for LRG for SMK I found an old tin of Superfield, (probably the only time I use these is to find they don't group in whatever rifle), so today was a bit of a shock, suddenly a ragged one hole group appeared ! I then tried FTT in the SMK, similar, but not quite as good a result, but better than RWS pellets - so there we go, if you find the right pellet the SMK does work well ........I will chrono and see what power the super field and trophy's are coming out at, for curiosity
    I also got a slightly tighter group out of the HW95 with FTT than with Falcons, but the difference was really small..
    So, my thoughts ........Chinese rifles have got a lot better , HWs do seem to have some QC issues, but the HW is a more refined rifle. Value for money, well I've just checked and a new 95 at Sportsmans is £262.99, on Gunstar you can pay £189.95 for an SMKXS20. I think if you paid near £200 for the SMK, you'd be very foolhardy, but at the right price allowing for the work YOU WILL NEED TO BE DONE, they could be a sound buy. I'd just like to also point out again that the unsung hero of midweight springers, the Diana 31/34 models can be had for £196.29 in compact barrel format (same length as XS20/95) although I could only find it on a German website (240 Euro's) because no one in the UK bothers to stock them, pretty much.
    While HW drops the ball, and the Chinese makers up the game, Diana all be it with their simple design, pressed parts etc, actually have improved their designs especially the trigger (T0-6 is Super), while the 95 and copy, good though they are have not evolved, though HW have now started introducing ambi stocks and new detent set up (though I've yet to see one on a 95)

    I hope this helps any people looking for their first springer, rifle for son (or daughter /wife), or those adding to their collection. Not one of the mentioned rifles shot well from factory though, so budget for parts and work as required .......I will add chrono readings with 'liked' pellets from the rifles, just for interest over the next few days
    Ok, next update .......
    After a couple more sessions, the SMK with it's liked Superfield is around 11.2, so that's great ! It hit 11.5 with Trophy's, didn't get above that.
    The HW has crept up more, half a foot pound in fact, and hit 11.7 (em, a bit close will leave cocked for 24hrs to micro set spring) with most efficient pellet.
    The smk does clatter a bit on barrel lock up I've noticed more now, but having re scoped it (with a £20 scope bought off here) and re sighted , and blatted plenty of superfield through today, for my outlay, it is a goodun, as they say
    Last edited by PCPShooter; 30-12-2012 at 06:13 PM. Reason: update
    Looking for TO-6 Trigger unit unmessed with or T0-6 kit for 34

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Barrow in Furness
    Posts
    739
    I am really looking forward to reading more. I haven't owned a Weihrauch so have no personal experience, but over the last few months I've noticed a continous drip of comments indicating that QC at Weihrauch may not always be as good as it could be. At the same time I'm hearing more often that the XS 20, and XS 19 to a lesser extent, are improving a great deal.
    Whatever doesn't kill you, is going to leave a scar... A Crip With A Gun!
    S400F Superlite Carbine - XL Tactical - 280k - 2250b - Striker 1000X - IZH MP-61 - Webley Bert - 2240 - C40 - El Gamo Centre - Walther CP88 - Sig Sauer GSR - Makarov MP-654

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Bexhill-On-Sea
    Posts
    5,436
    Quote Originally Posted by TonyHolden View Post
    I am really looking forward to reading more. I haven't owned a Weihrauch so have no personal experience, but over the last few months I've noticed a continous drip of comments indicating that QC at Weihrauch may not always be as good as it could be. At the same time I'm hearing more often that the XS 20, and XS 19 to a lesser extent, are improving a great deal.
    Both appear to be true, which is what prompted my own investigation rather than heresay, both rifles are now scoped and I'll be cracking on as soon as time allows
    Looking for TO-6 Trigger unit unmessed with or T0-6 kit for 34

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Gateshead
    Posts
    1,430
    Oooh, interesting read! I've got a xs20, standard at the moment. They tested the power in the shop and it was 11.6 ftlbs!

  5. #5
    secretagentmole Guest
    I disagree with your comments on the T-06 Diana trigger. The wife had a 280 carbine, the trigger was that sensitive it was like a hair trigger, no amount of adjusting by the RFD enabled a crisp second stage or anything over a gnat fart to fire! We put it down to bad luck and a few months later she bought another secondhand, the trigger was just as lousy again (yes the gun did have a different serial number)! The Rekord is the best trigger I have used so far, coming up a close second behind it is the Hatsan Quattro, I like that trigger (which feels identical to the one on my Theoben Sirocco), the BSA trigger on the Super 10 is also up at that level!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Bexhill-On-Sea
    Posts
    5,436
    Quote Originally Posted by secretagentmole View Post
    I disagree with your comments on the T-06 Diana trigger. The wife had a 280 carbine, the trigger was that sensitive it was like a hair trigger, no amount of adjusting by the RFD enabled a crisp second stage or anything over a gnat fart to fire! We put it down to bad luck and a few months later she bought another secondhand, the trigger was just as lousy again (yes the gun did have a different serial number)! The Rekord is the best trigger I have used so far, coming up a close second behind it is the Hatsan Quattro, I like that trigger (which feels identical to the one on my Theoben Sirocco), the BSA trigger on the Super 10 is also up at that level!
    I've used two new spec T0-6 rifles now, fitted one trigger upgrade in TO-5 rifle, shot a retro fit done by someone else in a TO-5, non sound like your description -
    Looking for TO-6 Trigger unit unmessed with or T0-6 kit for 34

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Ross on Wye
    Posts
    270

    Thumbs up

    Thanks for the interesting & honest review .

    I have long believed that the Chinese quality is improving in leaps & bounds .

    I think as in every over the counter springer sold today , they all benefit from a bit of a de-burr & clean up .

    I'll be watching further updates with interest .

    Thanks .

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Luton
    Posts
    324

    Thank you

    Agree, thank you for the review, I'm following with interest.

    I have an XS20 with the full Venoman treatment and I'm happy with it, not tried at 95 though so do like to hear how they compare. I have found SMk blacks work well in mine, I've a bucket load of hobbies though so going to zero in with them tomorrow and see how I get on.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Oxford
    Posts
    45
    Quote Originally Posted by chekov View Post
    My last 95k was was inferior to previous 95's I have had. The blueing was shocking. It was almost brown. There was a noticeable difference in colour between the barrel and the barrel weight. Sights were plastic. They are in my opinion built down to a price and not up to a standard. Poor show Weihrauch!!!
    Do you remember the year of production of your last 95K? ... or the serial number?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Viva Ches-Vegas
    Posts
    243
    I have both XS20 and TH208, both have tune kits that have given them delrin guides, tophat and a TitanXS springs properly cut to size. I have used Maccari piston seals in both. The XS20 needed the Weihrauch trigger blade replacement to get a proper 2 stage trigger and feel, but £13 is peanuts for a trigger upgrade.
    Both were bought new and at the right time to get a rock bottom price.
    I've had the XS20 for 6 years, the basic gun cost £80. It cocks smooth as glass and shoots the same way and will produce a raggy hole at 30yds on superdomes
    The TH208 is the copy of the RWS/Diana model 34 action but in an ambi thumbhole stock and cost £123, now being 3 years old. Very nearly a smooth as the XS20 and will produce equal accuracy with either AA Field or Crosman Ultra Mag. Both guns have barrel weights as standard, nothing clever here, just keeping the muzzle under control.
    Both are .22 and the power is set by me so as to be legal with their respective most efficient pellets.
    The fit and finish on both are more than acceptable irrespective of price, good but not great.
    Spending £50 or so on a set of bespoke internals and a couple of hours of your time on a springer seems to be par for the course no matter what you bought or what you paid for it.
    Both are going strong and neither has any "manufacturing issues" nor developed any fault.
    Good guns, good price, as accurate as some and as good as most. At these prices, cleverer than they have any right to be.
    Give them some halfway decent optics (both have Nikko Stirling Gold Crown Airking 4x12x42 AO) and they're a very competitive combination. They are not the quality of the guns they're modelled on but not that far removed and already performing just as well.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Bexhill-On-Sea
    Posts
    5,436
    Nicely put, a very honest perspective from my own experience. I'm letting a' new shooter' have the xs20 for what it's cost me, and know it will be a sound rifle for him, and will help him to embrace the sport.
    When asked about rifles in future for newcomers I will include the Chinese guns, the difficulty comes in explaining that when you buy an airgun you have to spend money to get it working right, it's just farcical really, can you imagine buying anything else, having to take it to bits and or send it off to a specialist for it to work 'properly' ......that's all springers though, AA get some credit for factory stuff, largely based on the designs they largely stole from Venom after welching on a deal all those years ago -
    Looking for TO-6 Trigger unit unmessed with or T0-6 kit for 34

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •