Supersport barrel/caliber change?

[POK!]

On the contrary the thing will push perilously close to the legal limit, or even over depending on weight you use. On paper it should improve marginally but its all surplus addition and risk when the gun is simply much happier in .22 with no weighting, extra thump or velocity increase risks required.
From here we can then correctly lube and allow her to bed in to within 75% of what a really good Springer can do.
Its a great little sporter for knocking around in the lanndrover and with plenty of practice you can get quite good with them.....in .22

I tuned and rebuilt 3 when they first came out.

A new spring takes care of this and I'm only talking a few washers. I've done a few myself and the maxigrip guns benefit the most.

[paul4be]

I've messed on with a few S/sports and Lightnings in differing calibers. As mentioned, I didn't find the .177 very pleasant to be honest. The only one that I've kept is a minty Supersport Carbine in .25. I prefer it without the odd size scope rail. I also prefer the way that the S/Sport carbines look (and the rarity factor).

[El Garro]

On my own with full length barrels I'm pretty sure the power dropped from 11.6 (.22) to between 8.5 to 9 with a .177 barrel.
I ended up keeping the .177 barrel on and fitted the .177 gas ram. The internals were de-burred and polished and with a new piston seal and breach seal (often overlooked but essential in my opinion) it shot nice and consistently.
I've had a few, Birmingham and Spanish, with what looked like good piston seals that didn't shoot too nice but when changed for a new seal and bedded in, transformed the gun so I'd say it's always worth checking. It doesn't take long to clean any burrs in the cylinder around the cocking slot and maxi scope rail holes (if present) pay close attention to the inside of the cross pin holes and slots around the trigger too and the seal will slip in without any risk of damage.
As you may be able to tell, I like the Supersports and lightnings, they're good little hunters when set up properly.

[look no hands]

A new spring takes care of this and I'm only talking a few washers. I've done a few myself and the maxigrip guns benefit the most.

I would have said the same, if fitting washers or doing any other sort of tuning then you would have to adjust the spring at the end to stop going over the limit, you may not do in this case as the rifle will be under powered anyway but you can't tell until everything is in place and chronoed.

Pete

[Dan944]

Great comments, it looks to me as the amount of guys here with interest and knowledge that it's not just me who has a soft spot for this gun!

There's something very appealing about this supersport and I think for me it's the total ,sleek, thin, smooth cocking, heavy duty, pointer ology of it, which is making me want to improve it to always keep using it.

I'm looking forward to swapping barrels over and to see what the difference is?

Grrrr I will let you know if I decide to part with the .177 barrel. ( inbox now cleared )

Thanks to all so far.

[look no hands]

Great comments, it looks to me as the amount of guys here with interest and knowledge that it's not just me who has a soft spot for this gun!

There's something very appealing about this supersport and I think for me it's the total ,sleek, thin, smooth cocking, heavy duty, pointer ology of it, which is making me want to improve it to always keep using it.

I'm looking forward to swapping barrels over and to see what the difference is?

Grrrr I will let you know if I decide to part with the .177 barrel. ( inbox now cleared )

Thanks to all so far.

If you want to improve it even more then try and get the Superstar trigger parts as it then transforms the rifle and the Superstar trigger is one the best (in my eyes) triggers out there.

Pete

[clarky]

Of course try all these things yourselves, if we did not try we would never see any advancement, or be able to share different findings and its often best to find things out yourself even if it is the hard way.
Im simply stating from the purest point of view that that going the .177 route with this rifle, is going in the wrong direction because fundementaly the .22 is about 20 % more efficient in smoothness terms before we start.
The addition of piston weights and removal of coils off mainsprings complex areas that requires competence to get right.
The individual with the 9ftlb .177......your guns not working right. Could be piston seal issues or check your mainspring. The Supersport is a 13ftlb gun in any caliber if your not careful.

[clarky]

Of course try all these things yourselves, if we did not try we would never see any advancement, or be able to share different findings and its often best to find things out yourself even if it is the hard way.
Im simply stating from the purest point of view that that going the .177 route with this rifle, is going in the wrong direction because fundementaly the .22 is about 20 % more efficient in smoothness terms before we start.
The addition of piston weights and removal of coils off mainsprings complex areas that requires competence to get right.
The individual with the 9ftlb .177......your guns not working right. Could be piston seal issues or check your mainspring. The Supersport is a 13ftlb gun in any caliber if your not careful.

[Dan944]

NEWS!!!UPDATE,,,

I have just done the barrel swap from .22 to .177

First off the chrono results : in the original form in .22 with 14grain defiant large
11.4
11.4
11.5
11.4
11.4

Then I changed the barrel to .177 and th barrel looks to have been cut and recrowned and measures a few inches shorter than th original full length.
Chrono results using JSB reds 452 8.4 grain :
10.9
11.1
11.1
11.1
11.1
11.1

First of all I am very supprised in the power being so high, I was expecting it to fall down to 9.3 kind of mark, especially as th barrel being a fair bit shorter than my original.

Now the Main feel of the firing cycle........,,,,????
I must say that I am pleasantly suppressed! Although it is very fast and snappy, its not that dissimilar to the oriinal form in .22

Of course I havnt run the serious test being how accurate I can shoot it in this setup, as I needed to go back in and spend a few hours with my wife before she realizes I could stay in the garage playing with my gun through new years so I'll have to leave the accuracy testing for tomorrow all going well

But I must say that I am quite happy as I thought that it was goin to feel very harsh and it actually doesn't! Now that might have something to do with the way I tuned the internals ????

Anyhow, for now things are looking good and if I do get a chance to test tomorrow, I will be sure to let you all know.

[Rich]

Sounds like you have got away lightly.

When Snock bought his first air rifle about 20 years ago he got a second hand Supersport in 22 calibre. My old Meteor was no longer up to any rabbiting and I borrowed a FWB 124 from a friend so that we could go rabbiting together. The Supersport was a really good gun and accounted for a large number of bunny hoppers.

When my chum wanted his FWB back I had to think about buying my own gun, and based on Snock's experience I was quite prepared to get a Supersport. However I fancied 177 as I had done OK with the FWB, and I bought a carbine.

It really was a big mistake. The combination of 177 and a carbine barrel made it unpleasant to shoot; and harsh, well it broke springs for a pastime.

[Dan944]

Sounds like you have got away lightly.

When Snock bought his first air rifle about 20 years ago he got a second hand Supersport in 22 calibre. My old Meteor was no longer up to any rabbiting and I borrowed a FWB 124 from a friend so that we could go rabbiting together. The Supersport was a really good gun and accounted for a large number of bunny hoppers.

When my chum wanted his FWB back I had to think about buying my own gun, and based on Snock's experience I was quite prepared to get a Supersport. However I fancied 177 as I had done OK with the FWB, and I bought a carbine.

It really was a big mistake. The combination of 177 and a carbine barrel made it unpleasant to shoot; and harsh, well it broke springs for a pastime.

Sorry to hear that.

I feel like I have got away with it a little too lightly too! But as I said it's early days.

I often find just by shooting a gun after a fettle in a piecenof wood in the garage can feel ok or infact good and then when you get on a range at the club or 20 yards down the garden in a prone shooting position shooting at paper testing the accuracy, it can feel like a different gun altogether

I do however have a good feel for guns nowadays and I do have high hopes for this caliber change, so only time will tell how it really shoots on paper tomorrow???

Still baffled about only loosing .3ftlb of energy though, but it makes a bloody change I can tell you! It's normally alrways the otherwAy round

[Rich]

Well, the 452 JSB is often the highest performing pellet in sub 12fpe rifles. Try a few 7.9g Exact Expresses while you're about it, the lighter pellet might even give you a bit more in a springer. They give me another fraction of a FT.LB in the HW97KT compared to the 8.4s.

[clarky]

This is good as its exactly as i would expect and falls perfectly in line with my own findings.
Like i said the dude with the 9ftlb .177 has something wrong because these Supersports are 11ftlbs plus in either caliber and liable to stray straight over the legal limit with any tinkering like piston weights. I feel however that your pleasant surprise will be short lived. The fast snappy let off that i have experienced will be more difficult to control, especially in the in the forward shock recoil (the worst to control) but you will need to be out on the range to realize it. Its what we tuning types try to reduce....not increase.
Good luck with it.
I completely agree with you regarding its styling in a world of massive slabbed stocked... comfort first... uglies.

[TonyL]

NEWS!!!UPDATE,,,

I have just done the barrel swap from .22 to .177

First off the chrono results : in the original form in .22 with 14grain defiant large
11.4
11.4
11.5
11.4
11.4

Then I changed the barrel to .177 and th barrel looks to have been cut and recrowned and measures a few inches shorter than th original full length.
Chrono results using JSB reds 452 8.4 grain :
10.9
11.1
11.1
11.1
11.1
11.1

First of all I am very supprised in the power being so high, I was expecting it to fall down to 9.3 kind of mark, especially as th barrel being a fair bit shorter than my original.

Now the Main feel of the firing cycle........,,,,????
I must say that I am pleasantly suppressed! Although it is very fast and snappy, its not that dissimilar to the oriinal form in .22

Of course I havnt run the serious test being how accurate I can shoot it in this setup, as I needed to go back in and spend a few hours with my wife before she realizes I could stay in the garage playing with my gun through new years so I'll have to leave the accuracy testing for tomorrow all going well

But I must say that I am quite happy as I thought that it was goin to feel very harsh and it actually doesn't! Now that might have something to do with the way I tuned the internals ????

Anyhow, for now things are looking good and if I do get a chance to test tomorrow, I will be sure to let you all know.

Excellent result, well done.
I, too, am surprised at the energy levels....well done. There will be some scientific way of explaining all of this, like when Bigtoe had made one of his 80s that efficient, that it was actually MORE energy efficient with heavy pellets! He then proceeded to balance stroke / spring rate to the point where energy levels were pretty similar using a broad range of different (weight) pellets.

Well done so far.....I'm going to guess that the firing cycle ought to feel exactly the same as before.....usually the reason why a .177 will be harsher than a .22 is because it has " more spring" so as to produce the same energy. You haven't altered the internals, so it should be the same.

If it works out long term for you, a little more tweaking may make it sweeter still.....

[clarky]

Excellent result, well done.
I, too, am surprised at the energy levels....well done. There will be some scientific way of explaining all of this, like when Bigtoe had made one of his 80s that efficient, that it was actually MORE energy efficient with heavy pellets! He then proceeded to balance stroke / spring rate to the point where energy levels were pretty similar using a broad range of different (weight) pellets.

Well done so far.....I'm going to guess that the firing cycle ought to feel exactly the same as before.....usually the reason why a .177 will be harsher than a .22 is because it has " more spring" so as to produce the same energy. You haven't altered the internals, so it should be the same.

If it works out long term for you, a little more tweaking may make it sweeter still.....

If only this were true ....then we could all enjoy .177 springers with identical firing cycles as .22. For guys who have been tuning these things for years, we know of a different story. For starters swept volume ratios have been completely altered negatively for this model in .177. In general it is for most springers unless specifically designed to be best in .177 as in the case of the HW77 and accidently so for the Mercury S. Clearly a heavier spring is not the cause of harsher firing cycles because he has only changed his barrel but getting very similar power (they wouldnt need to do it!)
Maybe Bigtoe can impart his findings before i end up sounding like a know it all ......ill leave it there for now and allow this guy to enjoy his new caliber Supersport.