In praise of Webley air pistols

[red bob]

aaah! still using the good old "sm50" where would we be without it
ps ,hows that scorpion ! the friday night bottle top basher; after a sip or two of the SCOTCH not the irish whiskey!!.

[ggggr]

aaah! still using the good old "sm50" where would we be without it
ps ,hows that scorpion ! the friday night bottle top basher; after a sip or two of the SCOTCH not the irish whiskey!!.

The Scorpion (Saturday night bottle top basher) is well although not used much as still looking for a house. The last time I used it for a few shots was about 3 weeks ago, after a bottle and half of wine. The light was pretty badly fading. Five shots, 5 caps and then away. I tend to use a rough Tempest these days.
How about punching out some of those double ended sight plates for the Tempests? 1 Wide notch and 1 narrow.

[red bob]

i ll get my rough tempest out and have a look.its the pistol i plink with the most to!

[Gerard]

With all this attention on Tempests... might you guys indulge a relative newbie with a bit of technical assistance for mine? I've got a .22" Tempest from about 1997 in great shape, put a new spring in it last month and it shot well. But then the thing stopped cocking. Sometimes. And now the barrel just refuses to pass about 132 degrees relative to the cylinder, nowhere near catching the sear. I'm sure I did something slightly stupid in putting it back together but I've had it apart three times since putting in the new spring and it just won't work any more. Can't see a single thing wrong. I've studied the parts blow-up and various folks' trigger assembly pictorials and it looks like I'm doing everything right. But does this particular barrel angle of 132 degrees, stopping cold like it's running up against something, give enough of a clue for experienced Tempest mechanics to sort me out?

[red bob]

guy is the sear blocking the piston as it travels forward due to the return spring coming away! possibly. i know you'll enjoy looking into this

[ggggr]

With all this attention on Tempests... might you guys indulge a relative newbie with a bit of technical assistance for mine? I've got a .22" Tempest from about 1997 in great shape, put a new spring in it last month and it shot well. But then the thing stopped cocking. Sometimes. And now the barrel just refuses to pass about 132 degrees relative to the cylinder, nowhere near catching the sear. I'm sure I did something slightly stupid in putting it back together but I've had it apart three times since putting in the new spring and it just won't work any more. Can't see a single thing wrong. I've studied the parts blow-up and various folks' trigger assembly pictorials and it looks like I'm doing everything right. But does this particular barrel angle of 132 degrees, stopping cold like it's running up against something, give enough of a clue for experienced Tempest mechanics to sort me out?

At a guess Gerard,If you are sure you have put it together right and ( hooky bit of sear spring on the sear and the leg of it goes up to the relieved bit of the trigger guard) the trigger and sear might not be aligned. Turn your gun upside down and have a look at the trigger and sear. You should be able to see the long leg of the sear,between the trigger and the sear stop pin. If you cannot see it then you need to pull the trigger and fiddle with a small screwdriver or rod and push on the short bit of the sear to rotate it until the long leg is visible and then release the trigger. With this though, the barrel usually gets just over vertical, maybe 100-110 degrees to the cylinder. If everything looks ok, then before you strip the gun again to look if the sear spring is broken, look at the trigger adjusting allen screw. These often undo and can foul on the trigger guard when cocking. These sounds more like you 132 degree thing. If it is fouling, then a touch of thread lock and wind the screw in.

[Gerard]

Turn your gun upside down and have a look at the trigger and sear. You should be able to see the long leg of the sear,between the trigger and the sear stop pin.

Have a look at this close-up shot of the sear and spring, just ahead of and above the trigger.
http://www.luthier.ca/other/forum/Tempest_sear.jpg
Seems to me the spring is fine, was fine when I last assembled it and seems to function as it ought to. The trigger's action is normal. The sear leg showing just under (above) the spring couldn't be a lot longer without hitting the front of the trigger guard frame so it must be the right way around I think.

If everything looks ok, then before you strip the gun again to look if the sear spring is broken, look at the trigger adjusting allen screw. These often undo and can foul on the trigger guard when cocking. These sounds more like you 132 degree thing. If it is fouling, then a touch of thread lock and wind the screw in.

The tiny allen set screw in the trigger is indeed very loosely threaded. I'm out of Loctite, have to remember to get some next time I'm at a tool store. But checking it at all adjustments, from all the way in to almost all the way out, there's no change in the malfunction, so this isn't the problem.

I'll have a try tonight after my son gets to sleep. So morning tomorrow your time. I'll let you know what comes of yet another disassembly/reassembly routine. Thanks for the help!

[ggggr]

Have a look at this close-up shot of the sear and spring, just ahead of and above the trigger.
http://www.luthier.ca/other/forum/Tempest_sear.jpg
Seems to me the spring is fine, was fine when I last assembled it and seems to function as it ought to. The trigger's action is normal. The sear leg showing just under (above) the spring couldn't be a lot longer without hitting the front of the trigger guard frame so it must be the right way around I think.


The tiny allen set screw in the trigger is indeed very loosely threaded. I'm out of Loctite, have to remember to get some next time I'm at a tool store. But checking it at all adjustments, from all the way in to almost all the way out, there's no change in the malfunction, so this isn't the problem.

I'll have a try tonight after my son gets to sleep. So morning tomorrow your time. I'll let you know what comes of yet another disassembly/reassembly routine. Thanks for the help!

I cannot make out the pic. When you strip the gun again, take out the safety. The trigger should still work ok. Remove the main spring and see if the gun cocks. Then try just putting the sear and stop pin in and cock the gun. You will probably have to fiddle the sear into the right position as you will not have a sear spring fitted. If you can get the gun to cock,then at least the holding face of the sear would seem to be ok. If it cocks then repeat with the trigger also fitted, but still no safety catch,sear spring or trigger guard. If it still cocks then take out trigger and refit safety and then trigger. If it is working, then refit sear spring and trigger guard. Finally if it is working, replace the mainspring.

Ps, when I fit the safety, I don't follow the Webley instructions. I just fit it with the cut out facing forwards and then put the big spring on to hold it in place.

[gedfinn 2]

At a guess Gerard,If you are sure you have put it together right and ( hooky bit of sear spring on the sear and the leg of it goes up to the relieved bit of the trigger guard) the trigger and sear might not be aligned. Turn your gun upside down and have a look at the trigger and sear. You should be able to see the long leg of the sear,between the trigger and the sear stop pin. If you cannot see it then you need to pull the trigger and fiddle with a small screwdriver or rod and push on the short bit of the sear to rotate it until the long leg is visible and then release the trigger. With this though, the barrel usually gets just over vertical, maybe 100-110 degrees to the cylinder. If everything looks ok, then before you strip the gun again to look if the sear spring is broken, look at the trigger adjusting allen screw. These often undo and can foul on the trigger guard when cocking. These sounds more like you 132 degree thing. If it is fouling, then a touch of thread lock and wind the screw in.

Hi Guy & All,
I too am into this Tempest thing , Having been presented with one at a very fair price for my HPA " Webley "
( Thanks mate )

I can see what the talk is about with the trigger , I do not know ! But it looks like it has to be cocked to work !
I mention this as its awkward to keep inserting & Removing the piston,
Guy,s kind words & Info have helped a great deal,

On to the Tempest, Its a small piston with a plastic seal, Its only going to make about 3-4 Fpe at the most, Even in .22 , ( As this one is )
It does have a long cocking stroke albeit with a small OD spring ,
I am quite impressed with the gun, The short length ( Aided by the overcocking design ) & a good barrel length ,

I do not know about the remainder of the Webley pistol range, guessing they are the same, Or very similiar,
This design is Ideal for a Hpa/Co2 conversion ? ( I am making the piston as we speak ) It will have a short cocking stroke, & Very light main spring & will look identical
( Almost Ha ha ) Power !!!!!! An easily limited 6 Fpe,
Ged.

[ggggr]

I was thinking Why are Juniors made the way they are (Tube brazed? into a frame ) and the Mk1,Senior and Premier made the way they are? I think a bigger pistol built like the junior would look pretty good and vice versa.