In praise of Webley air pistols

[harry mac]

I agree with I.J. Just been given a hardly used 1950's Webley Senior .177 and compared to my Diana Model Six its a load of crap. Heavy trigger, bog basic sights. The only fun I get from it is putting it back in the case.
Dave

Just to back up my earlier defence, I've put in a link to a pic of two targets. Both shot at 20, yes 20 yards. One with a late 1940's Webley Mk1, and one with a bona fide 10m match pistol, in this case a Fwb Mod 80. Both pistols were shot "officers at revolver practice" style, one handed, with the other on the hip. The scores on the doors are Webley 80/0 ex 100, Feinwerkbau, 91/1 ex 100. I'd say the Webley didn't doo too bad.
On both targets there are 2 shots outside the main group. With the Fwb this is definately down to me. If the same is true of the Webley card you could increase the score by at least 4 points.
I will admit that I took two strings of ten to sort out a point of aim with the Webley as originally it was putting it's shots low, but once that was sorted I managed to surprise myself with how well it shot.
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/j...psbb21a439.jpg

[Abasmajor]

Just to back up my earlier defence, I've put in a link to a pic of two targets. Both shot at 20, yes 20 yards. One with a late 1940's Webley Mk1, and one with a bona fide 10m match pistol, in this case a Fwb Mod 80. Both pistols were shot "officers at revolver practice" style, one handed, with the other on the hip. The scores on the doors are Webley 80/0 ex 100, Feinwerkbau, 91/1 ex 100. I'd say the Webley didn't doo too bad.
On both targets there are 2 shots outside the main group. With the Fwb this is definately down to me. If the same is true of the Webley card you could increase the score by at least 4 points.
I will admit that I took two strings of ten to sort out a point of aim with the Webley as originally it was putting it's shots low, but once that was sorted I managed to surprise myself with how well it shot.
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/j...psbb21a439.jpg

Hello Harry,

The attached link is to a typical group I can usually fairly easily achieve with my .22 calibre B Series Premier on the standard NSRA 10 metre target using a single handed unsupported stance. I have shot the pistol at 20 yds but found the groups open up too much to be acceptable at that distance.

http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/...psc7b82c7c.jpg


Regards

Brian

[harry mac]

That's excellent shooting Brian, especially for a Webley at 10m. On a 10m target I do well to keep all my shots within th 8 ring these days, even with the Fwb 80. Your target shows a good 9 ring sized group. I'm impressed.

[Abasmajor]

That's excellent shooting Brian, especially for a Webley at 10m. On a 10m target I do well to keep all my shots within th 8 ring these days, even with the Fwb 80. Your target shows a good 9 ring sized group. I'm impressed.

Hello Harry,

I can usually compete fairly well against the PCPs at 10 metres but as I say when it comes to anything much further it becomes a lot more difficult. Having said that these pistols were never meant to shoot much beyond 10 yds with Webley themselves claiming 1" groups for all but the Junior at that range. Although the other precision techniques are obviously very important, I have found the single most vital contribution to accuracy with these pistols is "follow through" which strangely enough is probably the easiest to master.

Regards

Brian

[ggggr]

I sent the Tempest I bought recently to one of our (anonymous for now) esteemed members to try out. It was the one fitted with the Typhoon spring and a lighter trigger spring + polished trigger.
The pistol was returned today with a couple of cards showing results with hollowpoints and hobbies plus some pellets to try.
I shoot 2 handed because of knackered arms.
I found the hollowpoints to "string" a bit and also got 2 bad fliers with pellets with damaged skirts.
The hobbies shot well and at 7 1/2 yards I shot a quick 10 shot group that a 2p piece would cover.
I then tried the Milbro Caledonians and managed to shoot a 5 shot group in a 3 pellet hole. I got a few more accurate shots before my knackered arms meant I started to pull the shots to the right

Still this is not bad for a £50 plinking pistol. I cannot understand people going out and buying some of the cheaper foreign pistols, when these can still be had at fair prices?

[Abasmajor]

I sent the Tempest I bought recently to one of our (anonymous for now) esteemed members to try out. It was the one fitted with the Typhoon spring and a lighter trigger spring + polished trigger.
The pistol was returned today with a couple of cards showing results with hollowpoints and hobbies plus some pellets to try.
I shoot 2 handed because of knackered arms.
I found the hollowpoints to "string" a bit and also got 2 bad fliers with pellets with damaged skirts.
The hobbies shot well and at 7 1/2 yards I shot a quick 10 shot group that a 2p piece would cover.
I then tried the Milbro Caledonians and managed to shoot a 5 shot group in a 3 pellet hole. I got a few more accurate shots before my knackered arms meant I started to pull the shots to the right

Still this is not bad for a £50 plinking pistol. I cannot understand people going out and buying some of the cheaper foreign pistols, when these can still be had at fair prices?

Hi ggggr,

It definitely can be done.

I have also found the RWS Hobby to be a good alternative to the more expensive H&N Match pellets which I normally use in older spring air pistols.

Regards

Brian

[Amac]

Same here with the Hobbies!
Andy

[zooma]

I have a nice boxed .22 Premier.

Does anybody have a good .177 barrel to fit it for sale so I can give it a go in the MPL?

I also have a Premier Mk 2 - also with a .22 barrel - so I am hoping to find a good .177 barrel to fit either of them

[harry mac]

I have a nice boxed .22 Premier.

Does anybody have a good .177 barrel to fit it for sale so I can give it a go in the MPL?

I also have a Premier Mk 2 - also with a .22 barrel - so I am hoping to find a good .177 barrel to fit either of them

Well, not exactly rocking horse poo, but certainly as rare as a generous Yorkshireman. You just missed one on the bay that would have fitted, it went for about £30 in the end.

[trevor1]

I love those photos of Webley metal targets in Chris Thrale's book.
They certainly tell a tale!
Lead splattered all over them.
Everywhere but in the bullseye?

[Amac]

Having witnessed for myself the level of performance a good pistol shot can manage with a "Wobbly," I can only confirm how impressed I am with the results of your shooting chaps. I clearly need a lot more practice!

Andy

[Gerard]

As it happens I received a packet of springs from Protek today, so I've polished a spring (very lightly rusted as received, and bone dry - they might consider a bit of oil for storage) and torn down my English Tempest (not 'Beeman' stamped, just Webley & Scott Ltd Made in England) and put in the new spring (about 3/4" longer than the one which was in it - the thing's shooting well enough with the original spring and I'll keep that one on hand as a spare) and tested it. Gained 5fps. Feels about the same. So a 3/4" difference in spring length doesn't seem to make much of a difference with the Tempest. Unlike with my .22" Senior. Put one of the new springs in that, the original being about 5/8" shorter but decidedly wobbly all along the length. The pistol went up almost 25fps, from the low 270's to a consistent 295fps. Feels much harder shooting though that's not a huge change. And at 5metres in the house it's hitting about 3/4" higher than my sighted in point of impact. Have to check it at 10metres soon and re-sight it.

Anyway, measuring the seal I found for starters that my micrometer is graduated in millimetres and 1/100th inches. Sorry, I just don't generally have a use for 64ths. So I'm seeing 20.5mm on the seal in every direction, or 8/10ths of an inch. Hope this helps. I'm not sure exactly when this Tempest was made, but the original sales receipt from a shop about 40 miles from here was dated 1997.

(For anyone seeing this much edited post and wondering why I chopped out the whining about re-assembly of my .22" Tempest with the new spring and how it wasn't cocking... well, I went out for some curry, thought about it, and realised that I'd not followed trigger group re-assembly step d), "Pull the trigger and hold it back, then push the small leg of the sear until the long leg rests against the stop pin." Must be more dyslexic than I thought I was. Or senile. At 51 it's hard to guess which. Oh well, the Webleys are all happy now and so am I. For those who didn't catch the whining and begging for advice... no loss, trust me.)

[Amac]

Sounds like your Wobblys are keeping you entertained at the moment Gerard! Hope you manage to get them re zeroed properly now they are re-sprung. Isn't it a pity we cant fit new mainsprings to ourselves? I reckon a couple of my own coils have collapsed over the last few years.

Andy

[Gerard]

You're not kidding. My 7 year old boy has taken to climbing into our bed about 3 in the morning lately, afraid to sleep by himself. He has a very vivid imagination, especially as concerns monsters. Last night he was not only between my wife and myself, but in an extra-insecure demonstration he insisted on pressing up against me the rest of the night. I had about 10 inches at the edge of the bed to sleep on. Little bugger's strong as heck. So I couldn't really toss and turn and spent at least 4 hours on my right shoulder. Feels now like someone hit me with a baseball bat. Deep pain all the way through the shoulder 'spring'. Dammit. Got to resolve this nightmare nonsense somehow. I need that shoulder for air pistol competitions!

The Wobbly pistols are indeed entertaining, all the more so when they're hitting hard with new springs and properly fitted breech seals. But the majority of my shooting time goes to formal 10 metre training. Got a new Pardini K12 arriving within the next week and I'm REALLY excited about the new trigger design, which by many accounts is one of the best triggers ever made. At least a couple of high scoring shooters have declared it to be superior in action to that of the electronic Morini. And the absorber is a bonus; lately my 'good day' groups have been inner 9's and strings of 10's, but my 'bad day' groups have shown a distinct upward flipping when I can't quite control the grip. The recoilless design might just be the ticket to eliminate some of those upper 9's and even some 8's... though really I can't blame the 8's on my K10.

----------------

With new springs in the Tempest and Senior .22" pistols and a new homemade leather seal in the Junior bringing up the velocities on all three I thought to have a comparison shoot today. Not very formal, just shooting from 5 yards. Here's the result. The Junior and Tempest fought me the least. The Senior is shooting somewhat harshly. I'm hoping it'll settle in. Took 10 shots with each pistol but lost track with the Tempest and think I stopped at 16. The last is a baseline with my competition pistol, the Pardini, and at that range the group is a bit big for me so I must be having a bad day.
http://www.luthier.ca/other/forum/comparing_Webleys.jpg
Have to say the Junior is currently the most fun to shoot. It's just so light! I'm off the Pardini. Too much like work, and as I'm anticipating the K12 it's starting to feel like it's not my pistol any more... be selling this one soon.

[zooma]

It's good to see some support for the more recent alloy pistols as well as the established steel favourites

...and not just the Tempest either !