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Thread: In praise of Webley air pistols

  1. #91
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    guy is the sear blocking the piston as it travels forward due to the return spring coming away! possibly. i know you'll enjoy looking into this
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  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerard View Post
    With all this attention on Tempests... might you guys indulge a relative newbie with a bit of technical assistance for mine? I've got a .22" Tempest from about 1997 in great shape, put a new spring in it last month and it shot well. But then the thing stopped cocking. Sometimes. And now the barrel just refuses to pass about 132 degrees relative to the cylinder, nowhere near catching the sear. I'm sure I did something slightly stupid in putting it back together but I've had it apart three times since putting in the new spring and it just won't work any more. Can't see a single thing wrong. I've studied the parts blow-up and various folks' trigger assembly pictorials and it looks like I'm doing everything right. But does this particular barrel angle of 132 degrees, stopping cold like it's running up against something, give enough of a clue for experienced Tempest mechanics to sort me out?
    At a guess Gerard,If you are sure you have put it together right and ( hooky bit of sear spring on the sear and the leg of it goes up to the relieved bit of the trigger guard) the trigger and sear might not be aligned. Turn your gun upside down and have a look at the trigger and sear. You should be able to see the long leg of the sear,between the trigger and the sear stop pin. If you cannot see it then you need to pull the trigger and fiddle with a small screwdriver or rod and push on the short bit of the sear to rotate it until the long leg is visible and then release the trigger. With this though, the barrel usually gets just over vertical, maybe 100-110 degrees to the cylinder. If everything looks ok, then before you strip the gun again to look if the sear spring is broken, look at the trigger adjusting allen screw. These often undo and can foul on the trigger guard when cocking. These sounds more like you 132 degree thing. If it is fouling, then a touch of thread lock and wind the screw in.
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  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by ggggr View Post
    Turn your gun upside down and have a look at the trigger and sear. You should be able to see the long leg of the sear,between the trigger and the sear stop pin.
    Have a look at this close-up shot of the sear and spring, just ahead of and above the trigger.
    http://www.luthier.ca/other/forum/Tempest_sear.jpg
    Seems to me the spring is fine, was fine when I last assembled it and seems to function as it ought to. The trigger's action is normal. The sear leg showing just under (above) the spring couldn't be a lot longer without hitting the front of the trigger guard frame so it must be the right way around I think.

    Quote Originally Posted by ggggr View Post
    If everything looks ok, then before you strip the gun again to look if the sear spring is broken, look at the trigger adjusting allen screw. These often undo and can foul on the trigger guard when cocking. These sounds more like you 132 degree thing. If it is fouling, then a touch of thread lock and wind the screw in.
    The tiny allen set screw in the trigger is indeed very loosely threaded. I'm out of Loctite, have to remember to get some next time I'm at a tool store. But checking it at all adjustments, from all the way in to almost all the way out, there's no change in the malfunction, so this isn't the problem.

    I'll have a try tonight after my son gets to sleep. So morning tomorrow your time. I'll let you know what comes of yet another disassembly/reassembly routine. Thanks for the help!

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerard View Post
    Have a look at this close-up shot of the sear and spring, just ahead of and above the trigger.
    http://www.luthier.ca/other/forum/Tempest_sear.jpg
    Seems to me the spring is fine, was fine when I last assembled it and seems to function as it ought to. The trigger's action is normal. The sear leg showing just under (above) the spring couldn't be a lot longer without hitting the front of the trigger guard frame so it must be the right way around I think.


    The tiny allen set screw in the trigger is indeed very loosely threaded. I'm out of Loctite, have to remember to get some next time I'm at a tool store. But checking it at all adjustments, from all the way in to almost all the way out, there's no change in the malfunction, so this isn't the problem.

    I'll have a try tonight after my son gets to sleep. So morning tomorrow your time. I'll let you know what comes of yet another disassembly/reassembly routine. Thanks for the help!
    I cannot make out the pic. When you strip the gun again, take out the safety. The trigger should still work ok. Remove the main spring and see if the gun cocks. Then try just putting the sear and stop pin in and cock the gun. You will probably have to fiddle the sear into the right position as you will not have a sear spring fitted. If you can get the gun to cock,then at least the holding face of the sear would seem to be ok. If it cocks then repeat with the trigger also fitted, but still no safety catch,sear spring or trigger guard. If it still cocks then take out trigger and refit safety and then trigger. If it is working, then refit sear spring and trigger guard. Finally if it is working, replace the mainspring.

    Ps, when I fit the safety, I don't follow the Webley instructions. I just fit it with the cut out facing forwards and then put the big spring on to hold it in place.
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  5. #95
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    Thanks for all that ggggr, I'll use your very carefully methodical approach. Might help. I ought to have been clearer about what the picture represents. So I've added some arrows and text at the same link above which should make things crystal clear, just click again and the image should explain itself - unless your browser has cached the previous version, in which case clear recent history and refresh the image.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerard View Post
    Thanks for all that ggggr, I'll use your very carefully methodical approach. Might help. I ought to have been clearer about what the picture represents. So I've added some arrows and text at the same link above which should make things crystal clear, just click again and the image should explain itself - unless your browser has cached the previous version, in which case clear recent history and refresh the image.
    STOP! Hi Gerard---as soon as I got off the computer last night I thought. I take it your fulcrum plate is not worn? Ok,take the barrel off and take the mainspring out before you look at the trigger again. Try to cock the gun by moving the piston with a screwdriver/small fod etc. If it now cocks and also holds while you push the piston, then your trigger set up is probably all right. If it seems to be, then try doing it with the barrel back on but still with no mainspring. If it does not cock now or seems marginal, look at the little cocking link Bk118 https://www.gunspares.co.uk/products...est-1979-2005/
    It may be worn flat at the front and cannot pull the piston far enough back. You can knock out the pin and reverse it until you get a spare one.
    If that does not work then it is into the trigger again.
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  7. #97
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    ggggr... thank you again for your generosity, I am grateful. I've finally taken some of my scant spare time away from my new Brocock Atomic (thing is fun!) long enough to dismantle the Tempest and check it over, and found absolutely no wear of any significance on any part. Putting it back together by the manual, step by step, I was doubly careful to observe each element carefully and reference your contributions here at the same time. And it works. All I can think is that somehow I misaligned the sear... though why it would work for well over 100 shots, then start failing, then fail completely is a mystery. But it's working well now, so all my pistols are happy at the same time. Hurray!

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerard View Post
    ggggr... thank you again for your generosity, I am grateful. I've finally taken some of my scant spare time away from my new Brocock Atomic (thing is fun!) long enough to dismantle the Tempest and check it over, and found absolutely no wear of any significance on any part. Putting it back together by the manual, step by step, I was doubly careful to observe each element carefully and reference your contributions here at the same time. And it works. All I can think is that somehow I misaligned the sear... though why it would work for well over 100 shots, then start failing, then fail completely is a mystery. But it's working well now, so all my pistols are happy at the same time. Hurray!
    Hi Gerrard--well that is good news. The only things I can think of (and I dont know how it could happen) is that the sear has somehow fallen back instead of being to the stop pin. had a few Tempests that wont cock but I guess it is after they have been played with. A push on the sear to get it back in sync has sorted them (but obviously get stripped for a full clean and lube afterwards anyhow.). Maybe you somehow put the sear spring back wrongly and it worked for a while. Then again, maybe a tiny bit of crud got stuck in the housing?
    Main thing is it is working. Better do a bit of plinking to keep it in the mood
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  9. #99
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    Weirdly, the Tempest locked up again yesterday after my first shot with it in a couple of weeks. Just the same as before. I'd shot a couple of dozen pellets the week before that and no problem, but yesterday the problem recurred. I gave the sear a poke from below, just pressing with a pick and wiggling it around a bit, and it popped back into place and worked fine again to cock the pistol. I didn't shoot more as I had somewhere to go and haven't fired it since, but I'll give it a try soon and see if this keeps happening. This instance helps actually, as it makes clear that it's a problem with the sear's travel. Like it's over-travelling somehow, just a little, after firing. I might have to buy or make a new sear, once I figure out which part of it isn't quite right.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerard View Post
    Weirdly, the Tempest locked up again yesterday after my first shot with it in a couple of weeks. Just the same as before. I'd shot a couple of dozen pellets the week before that and no problem, but yesterday the problem recurred. I gave the sear a poke from below, just pressing with a pick and wiggling it around a bit, and it popped back into place and worked fine again to cock the pistol. I didn't shoot more as I had somewhere to go and haven't fired it since, but I'll give it a try soon and see if this keeps happening. This instance helps actually, as it makes clear that it's a problem with the sear's travel. Like it's over-travelling somehow, just a little, after firing. I might have to buy or make a new sear, once I figure out which part of it isn't quite right.
    Hi Gerard---IF you are going to but spares then order a sear spring and sear. That way you could try the sear spring first to see if it cures the problem before changing the sear. I know suggested a lot already, but this does seem a sear related problem. I', assuming your trigger spring is ok?
    Try swopping the sear pin for the sear stop pin, just in case it is a little bent or tight.
    WITHOUT buying spares, this is what try if you feel up to it. (1) take out the trigger and lightly take a little off that bump between the trigger pin hole and the square bit that holds the sear. Also take a little off the top of the square bit as well and then lube the trigger up and retry it. http://www.airgunspares.com/store/pr...-Trigger-Wide/
    (2) if that does not cure it then remove trigger and sear and then lightly take a bit off the front,bottom and angled bit at the back on the long leg of the sear http://www.airgunspares.com/store/pr...t-Pistol-Sear/
    (3) if that does not work then strip again and remove the safety catch.


    The reason for the first two is that maybe the bottom or back of the sear is just slightly dragging on the trigger. I cannot see (3) really affecting things if the pistol does fire, but there is always a chance the safety slot is not cut or aligned and the trigger sometimes does not fully return.
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  11. #101
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    New Seior Sear Does Not Work.

    I bought a new sear for my Webley Senior from Knibbs and after fitting it the pistol refused to cock.

    I refitted the old one and it cocks every time.

    Any ideas why the new sear from Knibbs does not work?

    It is the same "later" type of sear and I have tried re-fitting them both several times - with exactly the same result every time!
    www.bobsairguns.com - also the host site for Rossendale Model Target Club since April 2011.

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by zooma View Post
    I bought a new sear for my Webley Senior from Knibbs and after fitting it the pistol refused to cock.

    I refitted the old one and it cocks every time.

    Any ideas why the new sear from Knibbs does not work?

    It is the same "later" type of sear and I have tried re-fitting them both several times - with exactly the same result every time!
    Probably because a lot of the spares are badly made. I had a sear for a Premier (thread on here) that needed an ANGLE GRINDER to take enough off the bottom to enable it to cock.
    You should notify Nibbs and send it back an hopefully the replacement should fit. If people don't notify them of problems, they will carry on getting and selling the same poorly made parts. It does not say that it requires some fitting so it should be fit for purpose http://www.airgunspares.com/store/pr...y-Senior-Sear/.
    If you want to have a go at it, then remove the mainspring and push the piston back to see if it engages. (It probably wont, but if it does, the chances are the holding face of the sear needs a little taking off it as it may be too thick to enable the piston to engage OR the edges of the sear are too wide---does it slide in the trigger housing ok?).
    If it does not cock, then take out the trigger and try it again. If it does not cock then, then it is probably the sear face.
    If it does now cock, you have to look at whether the sear will jam on the trigger or the trigger is jamming on the trigger spring or the housing.
    All this is easier to do with the mainspring removed.
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  13. #103
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    How you getting on with that new trigger spring Guy?
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  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by eyebull View Post
    How you getting on with that new trigger spring Guy?
    It is an improvement but I will try for something even lighter at some point. O could do with getting a spring and bending it or maybe some sort of adjuster for length of pull/take up.
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  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by ggggr View Post
    Probably because a lot of the spares are badly made. I had a sear for a Premier (thread on here) that needed an ANGLE GRINDER to take enough off the bottom to enable it to cock.
    You should notify Nibbs and send it back an hopefully the replacement should fit. If people don't notify them of problems, they will carry on getting and selling the same poorly made parts. It does not say that it requires some fitting so it should be fit for purpose http://www.airgunspares.com/store/pr...y-Senior-Sear/.
    If you want to have a go at it, then remove the mainspring and push the piston back to see if it engages. (It probably wont, but if it does, the chances are the holding face of the sear needs a little taking off it as it may be too thick to enable the piston to engage OR the edges of the sear are too wide---does it slide in the trigger housing ok?).
    If it does not cock, then take out the trigger and try it again. If it does not cock then, then it is probably the sear face.
    If it does now cock, you have to look at whether the sear will jam on the trigger or the trigger is jamming on the trigger spring or the housing.
    All this is easier to do with the mainspring removed.

    The new sear slides in and out of the pistol nice and freely so maybe they made it too tall ( or short) ?
    www.bobsairguns.com - also the host site for Rossendale Model Target Club since April 2011.

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