I prefer the old venom's over the vmach's,I think it my be a case of the older rifles being properly run in,having had two HW85s tuned/converted to oring, by Tony[bigtoe] I would urge anyone thinking of having their rifle tuned, to give him serious thought,at the time of tuning my 85s I had approx 8 Venom/ Vmach rifles shortly after delivery of the 85s from Tony,I sold all the venom/vmach rifles, the 85s are not run in yet, I have recently bought a venom hornet .20,and a lazaglide 98.177 from vmach, and whilst having only shot both very lightly, none have shot any better/felt smoother, than Tony's two 85s,I will certainly use Tony's services in the future.