whats your reloading techniques?

[tacfoley]

Is this an acceptable routine as only loaded 25 rounds of used ammo now!

Tumble,
Lube
Deprime and neck size
Wipe lube off with cloth
Prime
Put powder in
Load

And use.

If not what would you change, why and how.?
Where would trimming resizing and de blurring come into the equation ?

Cheers guys.

P.s I knocked up a load with the above routin and got about 20mm group at 100 yards with once fired brass as came with rifle when purchased.

Deburring is often necessary AFTER case-trimming. Many cartridges stretch on firing, and thereafter will not chamber in the same rifle or fireram. For that reason, these cartridges will need to be ful-length resized, my Swiss 7.5x55 cartridges is one such case. Many tight-chambered rifles will not take even the full-length resized cased, and therefore need to be trimmed to the correct length. This process, using an axial cutter that removed material from the neck in an even pattern, produces a ridge internally and externally that has to be removed using the suitable tool - called an inside and outside neck chamfering tool.

Remember, too, that when a case stretches, that stretch has to come from someplace, and that is the thicker material of the headstamp end of the case. Eventually, you will see a lighter-coloured ring develop there, indicative of an untoward amount of stretching having taken place - that case MUST be then be scrapped, as you are looking at incipient case head separation, something that you definitely would NOT like to experience under any circumstances.

Hope that helps.

tac

[NigelG]

didn't think you needed to lube for just neck sizing?

[thesmi]

Cheers, so you only chamber debur on new or trimmed brass?

What's the difference between case trimming and full length sizing?.

Thanks

[NigelG]

I'll have a go at answering this one, please correct me if wrong or add what I've missed. Full length sizing bumps the entire case length back to original calibre diameter, it also bumps the shoulder back too. It does nothing to size the actual length of the case back to max case length for each given calibre, this is why you need to trim to correct size after either neck or FL sizing as the case "grows" when fired, then inside and outside neck chamfer.

[boff180]

Shot Cases - 357 and 44

1.Ultrasonic Clean for 15min
2.Tumble for 3 hours
3.Decap/Resize
4.Clean Primer Pocket
5.Expand Neck
6.Prime
7.Powder - measuring each individual charge and trickling to suit
8.Seat Head (crimp at same time in 44)
9.Crimp Die (for 357)

New Cases
1. Champfer and De-Burr neck.
Then stages 3-9 of shot cases.

Andy

[thesmi]

Shot Cases - 357 and 44


3.Decap/Resize

5.Expand Neck

Andy

any chance of explaing this bit?
thanks

[eugene]

any chance of explaing this bit?
thanks

return case to original dimentions and remove primer (done with the same die)
flare case neck with a die to ease inserting new bullet
hope this helps

but I opt to do as little to the cases a possible with pistol calibers because its just not worth the effort
rifle stuff is different in my opinion if you need to know the basics read a book like the abc's of reloading

[thesmi]

return case to original dimentions and remove primer (done with the same die)
flare case neck with a die to ease inserting new bullet
hope this helps

but I opt to do as little to the cases a possible with pistol calibers because its just not worth the effort
rifle stuff is different in my opinion if you need to know the basics read a book like the abc's of reloading

i see what you mean yes i thought the neck sizer expanded the hole and when i put a bullet in it seats to length and closes it kind of thing



this is what i managed today from a tikka t3 243 hunter with 75grain sierra hp using straight from thrower averaging 44.9-44.5 grains
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g2...psadcafc7e.jpg

the above gave a more accurate group than a set weight and that of a less weight so im pretty happy so far

[Parabuteo]

Hi Theo

Brass is funny stuff mate. If someone heated you to ridiculous heats and bunged you in a pressure cooker, you would get a bit bent.

Cases are quite clever, being harder at the head end, and softer (due to annealing) at the neck end. The whole lot has to be capable of expanding slightly to seal gasses in the chamber, then return to the original dimensions (as near as dam it) so the case can be extracted.

This is handy, firstly as it keeps at that hot high pressure gas away from our mugs, and secondly....well, if you have ever seen the fulton commandos trying to remove a stuck case from your pride and joy it is something you will strive to avoid....aledgedly

Brass hardens with being worked and becomes stiffer and more brittle, so the upshot is that unless we can re anneal (and even when we can) cases change or wear out.

This shows with primer pockets expanding so they can no longer hold a primer in place or seal tha gasses in, as necks splitting, or as groups going west as the neck tensions all go to pot.

You may also get case head seperation, but this can also be down to how well your rifle is head spaced as well as continual firing.

As was pointed out, the brass quite literaly gets forced against the walls of the chamber, under great pressure and heat. It cannot go outwards or backwards, so the only place to go is to creep forward towards the throat of the bore.

The problem is that if you dont keep this within limits, on chambering, you might inadvertantly crimp the round into the case, or increase neck tension to a point where the peak pressures are too high......this can only happen for so long before something goes wrong.

So we keep the things trimmed (this was something I forgot to mention, I tend to trim all my .308 brass back to 2.002" when new, which means it takes real talent to crimp one during a season, and uniforms everything to start with, a top shot passed this on to me and it works...he really hates trimming).

There are 2 main consideration when re loading (being brief).

Safety

Avoiding situations like over pressure etc, things we all do like inspecting cases, load development by safe working up, etc

Accuracy

Things we need to do to give us the accuracy/precision we require.

The latter is where advice can be confusing. Many folks are loath to change what is a winning way, regardless of how logical a change may seem, so their way is the only way and god help anyone that disagrees

The point is that how you need to re-load depends on what accuracy you require, and what is required to get the best out of you rifle.

My brass dont move much on one rifle, so i dont need to work it much (and would strive to avoid that as best I can), but my other 2 are ostensively target or battle rifles, so I dont worry massively as long as they perform as they should.

Only time and some (safe) experimentation will tell you what works best...whatever you do keep a reloaders log and ideally keep test targets (or scans of them) so you can re-trace your steps later down the line.

You may miss a better mousetrap

The best way is to get amongst other folk who are reloading you chambering an dsee what they are doing, it could save you a few quid and a lot of frustration.

[thesmi]

hiya,
cheers for all the info!!!

i didnt realise/think about the neck bit becoming tight and crimping a round!

so i have got my trimmer (lee thing with a little metal rod) and knocked them all back some took a bit off and others didnt i have and chamfered and de bured these now.

so when you do a full length sizing all this does is neck size and knock the shoulders back?? becuase i thought the shoulders wouldnt beable to increase as stuck in chamber and no where to go kind of like fireforming

[Parabuteo]

hiya,
cheers for all the info!!!

i didnt realise/think about the neck bit becoming tight and crimping a round!

so i have got my trimmer (lee thing with a little metal rod) and knocked them all back some took a bit off and others didnt i have and chamfered and de bured these now.

so when you do a full length sizing all this does is neck size and knock the shoulders back?? becuase i thought the shoulders wouldnt beable to increase as stuck in chamber and no where to go kind of like fireforming

NO

The point of full length re-sizing is to return the case as near as dam it to SAAMI spec.

Fold do this for many reasons.

Often folk using semi autos or even straight pulls where quick hassle free loading si important will do it to ensure a smooth chambering.

Sometimes you might find that FL re-sizing produces better groups

You may also want to do it with once fired brass from another rifle as you may not be able to chamber it in its new owner.

Brass also has a property called spring back, whereby it will literally spring back slightly from where it was re-sized to. This along with slight tapers is what allows you to remove a round from the chamber after firing. It si also why some folk load their cases last minute (before the neck springs back and increases the neck tension) or even on the range.

Sometimes of course if you really over do something it wont spring back, so things get awkward.

With a neck sizing die all you are doing is re-sizing the neck. It may bump the shoulders back a bit I guess depending on how you have it set up and how your chamber is cut, but its purpose is to re-size the neck only and leave the rest alone, fire formed to your rifle.

Bush or bush bump dies are designed to allow a choice (by way of different sized bushes where the neck is sized) as to how much tension you have on your neck. this can be handy if you have to neck turn, if you use lapua brass (as it can be quite thick necked) or if you want to experiment with neck tensions (as Richness showed in an article in target shooter, this can be quite important for group sizes/super consistent velocity if you are into precision disciplines).

Often these only squeeze the outside of the neck(as there would be no point getting to a certain size only to drag a bloody great ball through it again), you can also control how much of the neck you re-size if needs be. Brass from a precision bolt action rifle tends not even to be ejected so should not pick up the nicks and dents that easily.

Thats the bush bit, the bump bit allows you to bump the shoulders back a thou or two. Some high power rifles fireform the cases quite well. Someone commented that if the case came out, it should go back in again, but there are always exceptions, and the last place you want to find out is on the point in a comp.

The difference between a hot chamber/case and cold chamber/case may not help.

It does not take much with some of the actions to stop you being able to close the bolt, and as far as I am concerned, if the only thing between me and the hell and corruption going on in a case on firing is the case...I want it to obturate..right, so a good fit helps.

Mine seem to move a thou or so, I know one world class shot who used to FL resize every 5 firings or so to avoid this, but now does it on every firing.

You might also want to use a die to bump back without touching the neck (for forming cases etc), I tend to use mine with the bush out to de-cap dirty cases, it saves cleaning the necks before sizing, I then chuck em in the US cleaner. Then put the bush back in for sizing when clean.

I am told you can also get full length bush bump dies, and again Russel Simmonds tends to FL his comp brass with a FL Forster die with teh ball removed, he then uses a Wilson neck expander to just ease the neck enough to get the tension that suits him, its down to what works.

I started out with a pair of dies and have ended up with (for .308) Bush/bump, Neck, and FL as well as the usuall seaters etc.

The bottom line is the less you need to work yoru brass the better, and if you can anneal well, its worth a look.

[thesmi]

Wow,
Seems I have barley scratched the surface I think I'd best do a lot of reading as seems I have lot to learn.

I was very happy with my grouping of 19mm out side edges too with 3bullets ragging and 2 slightly to the right