New .69 Mini Cannon

[shepp1]

Are you putting a scope rail on it


Lovely bit of engineering.

If so make sure it has plenty of eye relief

[tacfoley]

Tac, I don't believe your statement is strictly true, if the aforementioned cannon is an antique then as long as it is kept as an ornament or curiosity then it is exempt under the firearms act and you can legally own one. However, the moment you go to fire it - and "intent" would be enough, it would then be designated a firearm under the Firearms Act.

IF it is an antique, then you are correct. IF, however, it is a modern replica, even though it is a miniature, and it is drilled through to the chamber, it is a Section 1 firearm, like the one just made by the OP's buddy. Navy Arms made a .69cal 1/5th scale replica of the ACW Napoleon cannon as a kit and as a finished item - both as a Section 1 firearm with a drilled breech, and as a rather large but impressive desktop ornament.

One could be bought with mere money, the other only on production of mere money and a valid FAC.

tac

[Smokeless Coal]

Not sure but I seem to recall proof loads are 2x safe load. Its St Pats day and getting late and my brain cell just had a bath so I'm probably wrong.

The beauty of black powder is its pretty hard to overcook it, go over the top and the excess just gets blown out the barrel unburnt.

Looks like a nice bit of kit.

[Denno]

PS - I'm VERY interested to know what grade steel you made it from - please PM me if you care to.

Just got an answer back about the steel, it's barrel grade 416ss.

Mark

[Denno]

Are you putting a scope rail on it


Lovely bit of engineering.

lol, don't give me ideas!

[tacfoley]

Just got an answer back about the steel, it's barrel grade 416ss.

Mark

That's good to know.

Thank you for that.

tac

[steve medlock]

Denno,

Can I please ask if the trunions are fitted to the barrel after it is turned or are they machined from the same lump as the barrel?

Steve.

[Denno]

Denno,

Can I please ask if the trunions are fitted to the barrel after it is turned or are they machined from the same lump as the barrel?

Steve.

I'm not sure on that one, I an take a look later on when I get home.

Denno

[powderburner]

even if its smooth bore,if you shoot solid shot it has to be section one.
i think its the same for BP rifles,
will have to find out as i realy fancy one of these,T

No.. a miniture cannon is Section 1 because of the length of the barrel.

It is less than 24" so it is considered to be a muzzle loading pistol, hnce the Section 1 requirement.

If it is more than 24" and smoothbore, it is classed as a shotgun.

The "solid shot" story is a bit more convoluted. The relevent law here refers not to the gun, but to the ammunition. Ammunition less than 2" in diameter is classed as section 1 except shotgun cartridges containing more than 5 projectiles. As a consequence you need to hold solid shot cartridges on an FAC - ammunition with projectiles over 2" is classed as Section 5 (Prohibited) so loading shotgun carts for your 25 pounder is right out..

Muzzle loaders however do not use cartridges as defined by the act, therefore there is no restriction on using ball in these firearms provided they are smooth bore. Some Police forces have tried to challenge this, however it is quite clear in the Act. The usual excuse is that "oh they were not thinking about muskets when they drafted the law" - the counter argument is that the Police cannot assume ignorance on the part of the drafters, as muskets clearly existed at the time of the drafting of the act, and therefore if the drafters had intended the restriction to apply to muskets, they would have drafted the law to make this clear...!

A firearm can only be considered a curio if it is over 100 year old, and not a reproduction. A reproduction cannon with a through barrel and a touchhole must be held on a certificate, and have passed the appropriate proof testing before it can be sold.

[powderburner]

Hello,

Just thought some of you might be interested in my new purchase.. a .69 Mini Cannon
I have been wanting one for quite a while now and a few of us in the club decided we would look into it. After looking around there was nothing that really ticked the boxes we where after. We had decided on .69 as the prefered cal but the ones we could find to buy anywhere where quite expensive and they did not seem to have the quality finish we where after. Luckily one of our club members is pretty amazing at CAD and engineering etc so plans where drawn up by him and sent to be made. It was quite a long wait but well worth it.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8386/8...2a02a9e325.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8089/8...c88fe35454.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8247/8...4772df308c.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8514/8...1473f2b4dd.jpg

There are also a couple of videos on Youtube if you search for Fulwoodshootingclub.

A few questions though.. we are looking to cast our own balls, we are using patched balls at the mo so will be casting .685 balls from range scrap, as we are using patched balls I think this means we do not need to worry about the hardness of the lead?

Next question - the proof house said they proofed the cannons with 2 & 1/2 inches of blackpowder - err what is this in grains? So far we are using 30 grains of pyrodex and it seems a fairly tame load but is making nice groups (no idea what a good group is with one of these as they have no sights!) but at 10 yards we can get 2 inch groups with concentration.

hope this is of interest.

Denno

That's a proof load, not a firing load!

75gn of medium is about what you should be using in a .69 cannon. (and what i use in mine!) Even if you are patching, I would use soft lead!

I also make quick match to fire the cannon - this is black match loose in a paper tube. This gives an almost instant action, though you need to use slowmatch in a linstock. I don't like the idea of a cannon sitting there fizzing before it fires..!

[Abbridale]

A firearm can only be considered a curio if it is over 100 year old, and not a reproduction. A reproduction cannon with a through barrel and a touchhole must be held on a certificate, and have passed the appropriate proof testing before it can be sold.

Excellent post Powderburner with some great information, however please note in accordance with the current firearms law their is no fixed age when a firearm becomes an antique, unfortunately as the law stands at the moment the status of a firearm is determined by the good sense and judgement of a magistrate or jury to determine wether the owner is a genuine collector of old firearms and if he possesses them as curiosities or ornaments. In addition to this I wonder how many mini cannons actually carry markings which identify the date of manufacture, this is probably a very grey area indeed and proving the provenance of such items could quite problematic.

[pmercer]

Very nice! After I finish my current project, that's next on my list of things to build. What is the overall diameter of the cannon? I have a piece of 416 SS 50mm OD and 1m long that may do the job!

[edbear2]

Just got an answer back about the steel, it's barrel grade 416ss.

Mark

Hi mark...was it heat treated + quench and temper?

Or was it 416R grade?

ATB, Ed

[Denno]

Hi mark...was it heat treated + quench and temper?

Or was it 416R grade?

ATB, Ed

I'm not sure, the production process was described to me and don't remember that being mentioned.

[Jim McArthur]

I wonder when the last homicide or robbery was committed with a muzzle loader in the UK?

Muzzleloaders should be exempt from legal restrictions, given their low likelihood of criminal abuse.

However, it also seems to me that UK law also seems to try to anticipate and control intended legal use, at the time of sale, or at any point during possession.

Case in point: an original 1851 Colt revolver would be uncontrolled, if the purchaser / possessor intends it only for a curio or ornament: but Section 1, if he intends to shoot it at the range.