Calling all you Warrior owners

[pjbingham]

That is a surprisingly high serial number for the semicircular trigger guard, but it fits in with another reported example with the same type trigger guard which has the even higher number 4549. Currently the lowest known serial number with the second version trigger guard is 2065, so I think we can conclude that there was quite a long period of overlap between phasing out the large semicircular guard and introducing the neater recurved type, an overlap covering around 1500 production models.

Just got home and checked mine(see earlier post) ser/num "1943" .22 and it has the later style recurved guard.

[ccdjg]

Just got home and checked mine(see earlier post) ser/num "1943" .22 and it has the later style recurved guard.

Also very useful info, as this is the earliest serial number yet reported for the second style trigger guard. Serial numbers 1192 and 1550 have the first style guard.

Looking at the list of serial numbers acquired from this thread and from some other sources, out of 18 pistols, 12 were calibre .177 and 6 were .22. I know this is not exactly representative, but this is a surprisingly high proportion of .22 pistols considering how rare they are supposed to be.

[AC99]

My second series Warrior, s/n 2682, is in .177 cal and has the semi-circular trigger guard.
Aubrey

[ccdjg]

My second series Warrior, s/n 2682, is in .177 cal and has the semi-circular trigger guard.
Aubrey

Just when it all began to make sense along comes another spanner in the works

I am beginning to think that Accles and Shelvoke had a batch of semicircular trigger guards left over from when Frank Clarke made his first model Warrior, and they just mixed them in with their new design in a random manner until they were all used up.

[Abasmajor]

Just when it all began to make sense along comes another spanner in the works

I am beginning to think that Accles and Shelvoke had a batch of semicircular trigger guards left over from when Frank Clarke made his first model Warrior, and they just mixed them in with their new design in a random manner until they were all used up.

Hi,

I'm not sure if the the two types of trigger guard are directly interchangeable and may have been replaced with the alternative guard at some time.

We certainly know that the existing grips from Frank Clarke' final Titan design were used up on the Warrior. You can also see the clear visual likeness that the 7th series Titan had to the first Webley Mk1. Frank Clarke had a recognised influence on the final Webley product and I believe received royalties in recognition of his contribution.

Regards

Brian

[ccdjg]

Hi Brian, I can confirm that that the two types of trigger guard are perfectly interchangeable, so it was quite feasible for the old type of guard to be incorporated into late serial number guns if the manufacturer found it expedient to do so.

The various interactions between Clarke, Anson and Webley, all located within the same small area of Birmingham are certainly fascinating. There are all sorts of connections one can make between the Titans, Stars, Warriors, Britons and Webley pistols, and it is a pity that we will probably never know the true background to these. The important contribution that Clarke made to the design of the Webley pistols itself was one of the best kept secrets for many years before it became common knowledge.

One small correction: The leftover grips from Frank Clarke's Titan were actually used on the Anson Star, and as they fitted perfectly it must be assumed that the Star was designed with this potential money saving feature in mind. The Titan grips will not fit the Warrior as it has a different rake. However, Anson and Clarke probably did intend the Titan grips to be used on their Warrior in its early design stages, as there is an old Clarke catalogue with a sketch of a Warrior pistol fitted with the Titan grips. Something must have changed their mind before the Warrior went into production.

[Abasmajor]

Hi Brian, I can confirm that that the two types of trigger guard are perfectly interchangeable, so it was quite feasible for the old type of guard to be incorporated into late serial number guns if the manufacturer found it expedient to do so.

The various interactions between Clarke, Anson and Webley, all located within the same small area of Birmingham are certainly fascinating. There are all sorts of connections one can make between the Titans, Stars, Warriors, Britons and Webley pistols, and it is a pity that we will probably never know the true background to these. The important contribution that Clarke made to the design of the Webley pistols itself was one of the best kept secrets for many years before it became common knowledge.

One small correction: The leftover grips from Frank Clarke's Titan were actually used on the Anson Star, and as they fitted perfectly it must be assumed that the Star was designed with this potential money saving feature in mind. The Titan grips will not fit the Warrior as it has a different rake. However, Anson and Clarke probably did intend the Titan grips to be used on their Warrior in its early design stages, as there is an old Clarke catalogue with a sketch of a Warrior pistol fitted with the Titan grips. Something must have changed their mind before the Warrior went into production.

Hello,

Thanks for the correction regarding the grips which I must put down to my less than reliable memory. I actually own an Anson's Star with an incorrect pellet seater which happens to be the same one as used on the Britannia. I'm now on the lookout for a Britannia in poor enough condition to buy it just for the pellet seater!

Regards

Brian

[AC99]

I have two Warriors - an earlier model with no s/n and with the characteristic chamfered cocking lever and a later model without the chamfer, s/n 2682 (this info I posted on here 22/7/16). However, looking at Hiller's book again he says a further means of distinguishing between the older and newer models is that on the early models, ".....the barrel protrudes about half an inch (about 1/8" actually) whereas on the later model the barrel was encased in a square projection and did not protrude.......".
On mine the reverse is true - the later, numbered, model has a slightly protruding barrel and on the earlier model the muzzle is recessed, so did Dennis get it wrong?
Aubrey

[ccdjg]

I have two Warriors - an earlier model with no s/n and with the characteristic chamfered cocking lever and a later model without the chamfer, s/n 2682 (this info I posted on here 22/7/16). However, looking at Hiller's book again he says a further means of distinguishing between the older and newer models is that on the early models, ".....the barrel protrudes about half an inch (about 1/8" actually) whereas on the later model the barrel was encased in a square projection and did not protrude.......".
On mine the reverse is true - the later, numbered, model has a slightly protruding barrel and on the earlier model the muzzle is recessed, so did Dennis get it wrong?
Aubrey

You are right that when the cocking levers are in the closed state, the barrel of the later model protrudes, whereas the muzzle of the earlier model is concealed in a recess and so protrudes not at all. However, I am sure that Dennis was describing the situation when the cocking levers are extended (although he does not exactly make this clear). In this state, the later model has a modified hinge block which encases the barrel, and the muzzle protrudes only a small amount. In contrast the muzzle on the earlier model is exposed by about 3/8 inches. .

[Binners]

Hi John,
You have the number of the later model, but I can not find any number on the later one to add to the list.

[Binners]

Hi John,
You have the number of the later model, but I can not find any number on the later one to add to the list.

[ccdjg]

Hi John,
You have the number of the later model, but I can not find any number on the later one to add to the list.

Hi Pete,

Did you mean to say "...cannot find any number on the earlier one", ( i.e. the one with the half-moon trigger guard)? If so, then no problem, as none of them were serial numbered .

Cheers,
John