Calling all you Warrior owners

[ccdjg]

My second series Warrior, s/n 2682, is in .177 cal and has the semi-circular trigger guard.
Aubrey

Just when it all began to make sense along comes another spanner in the works

I am beginning to think that Accles and Shelvoke had a batch of semicircular trigger guards left over from when Frank Clarke made his first model Warrior, and they just mixed them in with their new design in a random manner until they were all used up.

[Mobiasstrip]

2430 0.177 Recurve.

[Abasmajor]

Just when it all began to make sense along comes another spanner in the works

I am beginning to think that Accles and Shelvoke had a batch of semicircular trigger guards left over from when Frank Clarke made his first model Warrior, and they just mixed them in with their new design in a random manner until they were all used up.

Hi,

I'm not sure if the the two types of trigger guard are directly interchangeable and may have been replaced with the alternative guard at some time.

We certainly know that the existing grips from Frank Clarke' final Titan design were used up on the Warrior. You can also see the clear visual likeness that the 7th series Titan had to the first Webley Mk1. Frank Clarke had a recognised influence on the final Webley product and I believe received royalties in recognition of his contribution.

Regards

Brian

[ccdjg]

Hi Brian, I can confirm that that the two types of trigger guard are perfectly interchangeable, so it was quite feasible for the old type of guard to be incorporated into late serial number guns if the manufacturer found it expedient to do so.

The various interactions between Clarke, Anson and Webley, all located within the same small area of Birmingham are certainly fascinating. There are all sorts of connections one can make between the Titans, Stars, Warriors, Britons and Webley pistols, and it is a pity that we will probably never know the true background to these. The important contribution that Clarke made to the design of the Webley pistols itself was one of the best kept secrets for many years before it became common knowledge.

One small correction: The leftover grips from Frank Clarke's Titan were actually used on the Anson Star, and as they fitted perfectly it must be assumed that the Star was designed with this potential money saving feature in mind. The Titan grips will not fit the Warrior as it has a different rake. However, Anson and Clarke probably did intend the Titan grips to be used on their Warrior in its early design stages, as there is an old Clarke catalogue with a sketch of a Warrior pistol fitted with the Titan grips. Something must have changed their mind before the Warrior went into production.

[Abasmajor]

Hi Brian, I can confirm that that the two types of trigger guard are perfectly interchangeable, so it was quite feasible for the old type of guard to be incorporated into late serial number guns if the manufacturer found it expedient to do so.

The various interactions between Clarke, Anson and Webley, all located within the same small area of Birmingham are certainly fascinating. There are all sorts of connections one can make between the Titans, Stars, Warriors, Britons and Webley pistols, and it is a pity that we will probably never know the true background to these. The important contribution that Clarke made to the design of the Webley pistols itself was one of the best kept secrets for many years before it became common knowledge.

One small correction: The leftover grips from Frank Clarke's Titan were actually used on the Anson Star, and as they fitted perfectly it must be assumed that the Star was designed with this potential money saving feature in mind. The Titan grips will not fit the Warrior as it has a different rake. However, Anson and Clarke probably did intend the Titan grips to be used on their Warrior in its early design stages, as there is an old Clarke catalogue with a sketch of a Warrior pistol fitted with the Titan grips. Something must have changed their mind before the Warrior went into production.

Hello,

Thanks for the correction regarding the grips which I must put down to my less than reliable memory. I actually own an Anson's Star with an incorrect pellet seater which happens to be the same one as used on the Britannia. I'm now on the lookout for a Britannia in poor enough condition to buy it just for the pellet seater!

Regards

Brian

[trevor1]

http://s864.photobucket.com/user/cin...tml?sort=3&o=0

http://s864.photobucket.com/user/cin...gejrr.jpg.html

Got one!Thank you John Dealing!regards,Trev

[ptdunk]

Hi,
I just got this nice example:

https://www.flickr.com/gp/158270726@N07/ijwW0D
https://www.flickr.com/gp/158270726@N07/V2e3ow

Sn: 4062

Cocking arm's a bit warped but the seal lines up perfectly at the back and it fires nicely.
Judging by this thread .22 examples aren't quite as rare as was thought!
Mr Hiller thought they were quite scarce, but that was pre internet.

Thanks.

[leh22]

I've got two still here:

A & F Mon-O-Gram version
recurved triggerguard
.22
3297


standard later model
recurved triggerguard
.22 in Gold Medal box (box marked .22)
5891

LarryH

[ccdjg]

Thanks very much for the additional information.

I now have a total of 18 .22 Warriors in my list, compiled over about 30 years. I have come across or read about probably more than a hundred in .177 calibre in that period, so I think it is still fair to say that the .22 version is relatively rare.

[grantb]

I have a .22 Warrior with the large semicircular trigger guard. The serial number is 1360.

[DrGunn]

I’ve just acquired a relatively early Warrior with the serial number 1719 in 177 and with the semicircular trigger guard.
The grips on mine appear to be horn (the left one is delaminating slightly) and I’ve read reports of both horn and vulcanite grips being used on these. Presumably horn was switched for vulcanite at some point in the manufacture?

[AC99]

I have two Warriors - an earlier model with no s/n and with the characteristic chamfered cocking lever and a later model without the chamfer, s/n 2682 (this info I posted on here 22/7/16). However, looking at Hiller's book again he says a further means of distinguishing between the older and newer models is that on the early models, ".....the barrel protrudes about half an inch (about 1/8" actually) whereas on the later model the barrel was encased in a square projection and did not protrude.......".
On mine the reverse is true - the later, numbered, model has a slightly protruding barrel and on the earlier model the muzzle is recessed, so did Dennis get it wrong?
Aubrey

[ccdjg]

I have two Warriors - an earlier model with no s/n and with the characteristic chamfered cocking lever and a later model without the chamfer, s/n 2682 (this info I posted on here 22/7/16). However, looking at Hiller's book again he says a further means of distinguishing between the older and newer models is that on the early models, ".....the barrel protrudes about half an inch (about 1/8" actually) whereas on the later model the barrel was encased in a square projection and did not protrude.......".
On mine the reverse is true - the later, numbered, model has a slightly protruding barrel and on the earlier model the muzzle is recessed, so did Dennis get it wrong?
Aubrey

You are right that when the cocking levers are in the closed state, the barrel of the later model protrudes, whereas the muzzle of the earlier model is concealed in a recess and so protrudes not at all. However, I am sure that Dennis was describing the situation when the cocking levers are extended (although he does not exactly make this clear). In this state, the later model has a modified hinge block which encases the barrel, and the muzzle protrudes only a small amount. In contrast the muzzle on the earlier model is exposed by about 3/8 inches. .

[Binners]

Hi John,
You have the number of the later model, but I can not find any number on the later one to add to the list.

[ccdjg]

I’ve just acquired a relatively early Warrior with the serial number 1719 in 177 and with the semicircular trigger guard.
The grips on mine appear to be horn (the left one is delaminating slightly) and I’ve read reports of both horn and vulcanite grips being used on these. Presumably horn was switched for vulcanite at some point in the manufacture?

I have checked my early non-serial numbered Warrior with the half-moon trigger guard, and it has vulcanite grips. ( You can confirm this by applying a red hot needle to the (inside!) surface of the grip and sniffing the fumes. Vulcanite gives a burnt rubber smell, horn gives a burnt hair smell). In addition, as you say, horn can show signs of delamination, as it was made by hot pressing pieces of horn together before it was stained.

I only have anecdotal information about the use of horn, but I definitely also had a Warrior several years ago where the grips were delaminating slightly and the black finish was wearing off along the layers. Unfortunately the gun is long gone and I did not record any details at the time. As the first version of the Warrior was not serial numbered, it will probably be impossible to determine when the use of horn was abandoned. Even so, it would be interesting to hear of anyone else who has a Warrior witn horn grips, as it will give some idea of how common they are.