Starting in blackpowder

[TA6319]

I have purchased a few rifles/shotguns as section 58(2), with a shotgun you just inform the Police you have it. A rifle has to have a available slot for that caliber. Its easy enough to do, with a shotgun and a rifle just takes a bit of time. Keep an eye on antique shops and places like that.

[$harp$hooter]

I have purchased a few rifles/shotguns as section 58(2), with a shotgun you just inform the Police you have it. A rifle has to have a available slot for that caliber. Its easy enough to do, with a shotgun and a rifle just takes a bit of time. Keep an eye on antique shops and places like that.

So it is a legal requirement that you inform the police if you buy a S58 shotgun? And to buy a S58 rifle do you need your FAC and available slots?

[tacfoley]

Please read this -

Antiques
Section 58(2) of the 1968 Act exempts from the provisions of the Act - including certificate controls under sections 1 and 2 and prohibition under section 5 - all antique firearms which are sold, transferred, purchased, acquired or possessed as curiosities or ornaments. The word "antique" is not defined in the Act but Home Office guidance on the subject can be summarised briefly as follows:

If modern ready made ammunition can be bought and fired using the weapon it cannot be classed as an antique; A muzzle loading firearm is antique; A breech loading firearm using a rim-fire cartridge exceeding .23 (but not 9mm) is antique; A breech loading firearm using an ignition system other than rim-fire or centre is antique; A breech loading centre fire firearm originally chambered for cartridges which are now obsolete and retains that original chambering is antique. However, each case should be dealt with on its merits and advice on individual weapons should be sought from the FSP. The case of R v Burke 67 Cr App R 220 dictates that it is for the Prosecution to prove that the firearm does not come within the ambit of section 58(2) and it is a matter for the jury to decide upon.

tac

[TA6319]

sorry I should have said you inform the police only if you want to use a section 58(2) shotgun. As tac said read the act

[enfield2band]

Please read this -

Antiques
Section 58(2) of the 1968 Act exempts from the provisions of the Act - including certificate controls under sections 1 and 2 and prohibition under section 5 - all antique firearms which are sold, transferred, purchased, acquired or possessed as curiosities or ornaments. The word "antique" is not defined in the Act but Home Office guidance on the subject can be summarised briefly as follows:

If modern ready made ammunition can be bought and fired using the weapon it cannot be classed as an antique; A muzzle loading firearm is antique; A breech loading firearm using a rim-fire cartridge exceeding .23 (but not 9mm) is antique; A breech loading firearm using an ignition system other than rim-fire or centre is antique; A breech loading centre fire firearm originally chambered for cartridges which are now obsolete and retains that original chambering is antique. However, each case should be dealt with on its merits and advice on individual weapons should be sought from the FSP. The case of R v Burke 67 Cr App R 220 dictates that it is for the Prosecution to prove that the firearm does not come within the ambit of section 58(2) and it is a matter for the jury to decide upon.

tac

There are grey areas in the Firearms Act as I am sure you are aware.

A .45/577" Martini Henry can be bought as a collectors item without an FAC. Technically the ammunition is obsolete but we all know that the cartridge cases can be bought and reloaded.
It seems that if you have one of these it is only considered as an antique if you do not have the ammunition for it. Once you load some up you then enter the realms of our restrictive legislation.

I recall reading some time ago that Bill Harriman (BASC) argued that you could have original ammunition with one of these as it is also collectable and only becomes subject to the Firearms Act if it is taken out to be used.

A Martini Enfield still needs an FAC because it is .303" centrefire.

[tacfoley]

Quote - A .45/577" Martini Henry can be bought as a collectors item without an FAC. Technically the ammunition is obsolete but we all know that the cartridge cases can be bought and reloaded.

In that case you have broken the Law.

Quote - It seems that if you have one of these it is only considered as an antique if you do not have the ammunition for it. Once you load some up you then enter the realms of our restrictive legislation.

In that case you have broken the Law.

Quote - I recall reading some time ago that Bill Harriman (BASC) argued that you could have original ammunition with one of these as it is also collectable and only becomes subject to the Firearms Act if it is taken out to be used.

That, Sir, makes FAR too much sense for our Law-makers.

tac

[tacfoley]

As you surmise, the .577/.450, Martini-Henry CAN easily be loaded IF you are doing it legally. Remember that you will be asked to justify the acquisition of suitable large rifle primers to set the things off, as well as a BP license to obtain the bangy stuff.

However, please note that there WERE official smooth-bore versions of this gun made available at the time of issue - the lack of rifling being more for the purpsoe of ensuring a miss rather than a hit if the gun was 'inadvertantly' aimed in the wrong direction - á la Indian Mutiny and the subsequent Sepoy-issue smoothbore Pattern 53s. Obviously such a gun would be off-ticket, until you expressed a wish to shoot it.

A shooting pal on this forum and in our club legally shoots his large and varied collection of M-H rifles and carbines- I hope he turns up soon - the M-H is not in my area of extened knowledge - his most certainly is.

tac

[enfield2band]

. 50/70 Maynard(H)
.500/.450 Westley Richards No.2 Musket (H)
.500-1.5 inch (H)
.500-2-25 inch (H)
.500-2.5 inch (H)
.500-3 rnch (H)
.500-3.25 inch (H)
.500/.450 No.1 Carbine (H)
.500/.450 Webley Carbine (H)
.500/-450-2.5 inch (H)
,500/.450 No.1 Express (H)
.500/.450-3 3/8 inch (H)
-500/.450- 3.5 inch (H)
-50 Remington Army Pistol, M1871 (W&M)
.50 Remington Navy Pistol, M1867 (W&M)
.50 Springfield Pistol, M1869 (W&M)
.500 Revolver (W&M)
.50/95 Winchester (D)
50-100 Winchester Express (D)
,50-110 Winchester Express (D)
.50/115 Billiard (B)
.50/140 Sharps (B)
.52-70 Sharps (H)
.54 Morse (H)
.55 Morse (H)
.55 Catling (H)
.55/100 Maynard (B)
.56-56 US Exptl. (H)
.577Selwyn 1865 (H)
.577 Daw's Patent 1867 (H)
.577 Snider (H)
.577/.450 Martini-Henry (H)
.577-2.25 men (H)
-577 2,5 inch (H)
-577-2 75 inch (H)
.577/.500 No.2 Express (H)
.577/.500 Magnum Express (H)
.577 Pistol (W&M)
.58 Morse (H)
.58 US Converted Musket, 1865 (H)
.58 Remington Carbine (H)
.58 US Berdan System Conversion (11)
.58 Tibbals/Roberts 1869 (H)
.58 Roberts (H)
.60 Chinese Jingal (H)
.65 Gatling (H)
.69 Morse (H)
.75 Gatling (H)
.75 Chinese Jingal (H)
.80 Catling (H)
1 inch Nordenfelt-Palmcranz (H)
20 bore/,577 Alex. Henry (H)
2.7mm Koljbri (W&M)
3mm Kolsbri (W&M)
4.25mm Liliput (W&M)
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