Mini cannons and the law

[tacfoley]

Thanks for that. Like I said I didn't buy them but it got me thinking as to their classification under the law. Does their size, with them having such a short barrel length have an effect on their classification?

As far as I can see, they are both Section 1 firearms - they are smooth-bore, true, but they are actually MADE to fire a single projectile - that alone makes them Section 1 firearms. Just like a short-barrelled replica of any BP gun.

The barrel is also less than 24" long, so they can not be classed as any kind of shotgun except a Section 1 shotgun.

IMO the seller has broken the law in offering them for sale. As Section 1 firearms he has sold them without recourse to licensing - a very serious offence in this country. Whoever bought them may or may not knowingly have broken the law, but broken it they have, as as we know from the experience of the poor bugger who found a shotgun in his garbage can a while back, not knowing the law can STILL earn you the five-year freedom from paying taxes.

tac

[davederrick]

Still some for sale, but in the US. Not sure of their laws on selling cannons, but export/import will most defo be a non-starter.

[Jim McArthur]

Still some for sale, but in the US. Not sure of their laws on selling cannons, but export/import will most defo be a non-starter.

In the US, all muzzleloading guns are exempt from federal law. This is true whether they are antique, modern, whatever the bore, caliber, barrel length, rifled or smooth, pistol or shoulder gun or cannon.

State and local law? The mini cannon in question may be unregulated. Then again, it may be regulated as stringently as a modern pistol.

[davederrick]

Didn't know that Jim, thought only antiques were exempt. Nice bit of info, thanks.

[Jim McArthur]

Didn't know that Jim, thought only antiques were exempt. Nice bit of info, thanks.

No, all muzzleloaders are exempt here: as are all air / spring / CO2 guns, and all obsolete ignition system guns (such as pinfires), even if they're newly-manufactured.

Also, all cartridge guns (with the exception of fully-automatic ones, rifles shorter than 26 inches or with barrels shorter than 16, or shotguns shorter than 26 inches or with barrels shorter than 18), are exempt, IF they (the actual specimen you're holding in your hand) were manufactured prior to 1899.

This is rather like your "obsolete calibers" exception: but yours makes more sense. If I have in one hand a perfectly functional revolver chambered for the .32 S&W and made in 1898: that one's exempt from controls. But its twin brother, made in 1899, is controlled.

Also, since year of manufacture, not caliber, is the controlling point, a .32 rimfire revolver made in 1905, say, would be controlled just like a factory-fresh 10 millimeter automatic: even though I'd not be likely to find cartridges to fit it.

Whereas, a .22 rimfire made in 1895, say, would be uncontrolled: even though ammo for it is readily available!

Also, we don't have any exception here for deactivated guns. The government takes the position that "de"activated mean, "capable of being REactivated". So a deactivated gun would be subject to the same controls - if any - as its operable equivalent.

[davederrick]

Helpful post, thanks. 1899 was the thing I was thinking of. Thats how I got my Martini Henry out of the US, exported without restrictions as prior to 1899, imported without restrictions as obsolete calibre. Cool.

[robinghewitt]

Curiosity or ornament so you can shoot it infrequently, no more than once or twice a year.

Hassle is, it's a pistol so Home Office approved ranges only.

After much searching I found a toy cannon with 24" from muzzle to point of ignition. Had to import it from Germany but worth the effort because it is a shotgun and the law is a lot less restrictive.

[Jim McArthur]

Helpful post, thanks. 1899 was the thing I was thinking of. Thats how I got my Martini Henry out of the US, exported without restrictions as prior to 1899, imported without restrictions as obsolete calibre. Cool.

Yes! Date controls in the US: obsoleteness of caliber controls in the UK (for cartridge guns).

If your Martini Henry rifle were made in 1899 or later, it would have been readily importable into the UK: but NOT readily exportable from the US.

The US laws aren't-always more lenient than the UK's.