What sort of power did these bsa standards give out in .177?

[Dan944]

Hi guys, I'm restoring an old standard although I don't know how old it is as yet? I'd like to know what sort of power these things should have.

It's .177 and it has the push button underleaver with numbers on the trigger block starting with the letter c I believe but will double check tommorow, as if love to know what sort of age it was made too?

Any help much appreciated as always.

Really looking forward to shooting this old girl.

Thanks
Daniel

[Garvin]

Hi guys, I'm restoring an old standard although I don't know how old it is as yet? I'd like to know what sort of power these things should have.

It's .177 and it has the push button underleaver with numbers on the trigger block starting with the letter c I believe but will double check tommorow, as if love to know what sort of age it was made too?

Any help much appreciated as always.

Really looking forward to shooting this old girl.

Thanks
Daniel

Daniel it will depend on whether you have a 1930s "CS" or "C" prefix model, which were around 43.5 inches long, or an earlier "CS" model which was 45.5 inches long and are quite scarce. IIRC the shorter rifles tend to be around 8 or 9 foot pounds and the full length ones more like 10 or even higher. These figures assume they are in good internal condition and properly run in. I know there are occasionally examples of the full length pre-War BSAs that come closer to 12 ft lbs but they are the exception. I have a beautiful full length CS that shot very sweetly at around 10 ft lbs when I last used it. I can't remember which pellets I was using.

[Dan944]

Daniel it will depend on whether you have a 1930s "CS" or "C" prefix model, which were around 43.5 inches long, or an earlier "CS" model which was 45.5 inches long and are quite scarce. IIRC the shorter rifles tend to be around 8 or 9 foot pounds and the full length ones more like 10 or even higher. These figures assume they are in good internal condition and properly run in. I know there are occasionally examples of the full length pre-War BSAs that come closer to 12 ft lbs but they are the exception. I have a beautiful full length CS that shot very sweetly at around 10 ft lbs when I last used it. I can't remember which pellets I was using.

Hi Garvin,
Thanks for your reply, I will measure it later tonight as I'm on a late and see exactly what the numbers are, and the length.

Couple if questions, where should I be measuring from? Ie the end of the barrel to the rear where the stock attaches?

Also where are the serial numbers to identify the make and year? Are they the ones on the side of the trigger block?

Thanks
Daniel

[Peter Dunkley]

Hi. Measure whole length of gun. Yes the letters numbers on the trigger block ar the ones to use.
Lovely guns. My club standard was nearly full power but shot a lot more sweetly when I reduced it to around 8 ftlb.

[Dan944]

Thanks for the responses, I just managed to pop home to get some material and quickly had a look at the gun. This is the trigger block number : cs22108. And from the end of the barrel to the back of the trigger block where the stock would bolt on, it measures 82 inches.

I would love to know the power this should give and the age of this gun.

Thanks for any info
Daniel

[pegasus]

Thanks for the responses, I just managed to pop home to get some material and quickly had a look at the gun. This is the trigger block number : cs22108. And from the end of the barrel to the back of the trigger block where the stock would bolt on, it measures 82 inches.

I would love to know the power this should give and the age of this gun.

Thanks for any info
Daniel

Daniel, 82inches!!!!, that's 6ft 10 inches. I nearly spluttered tea over the keyboard, if only this were true it would be something really special, a giant exhibition piece, a one off, whatever size it is its special anyway I love these pre war BSA underleavers, Atb John

[Abasmajor]

Thanks for the responses, I just managed to pop home to get some material and quickly had a look at the gun. This is the trigger block number : cs22108. And from the end of the barrel to the back of the trigger block where the stock would bolt on, it measures 82 inches.

I would love to know the power this should give and the age of this gun.

Thanks for any info
Daniel

Hi Daniel,

I would of thought around 8 & 10 ft lbs would be about right for your CS which according to John Knibbs dates between 1930 - 1936.

Regards

Brian

[Dan944]

Hi Daniel,

I would of thought around 8 & 10 ft lbs would be about right for your CS which according to John Knibbs dates between 1930 - 1936.

Regards

Brian

Thanks guys, oh and sorry for the mistake it meant to read 32 and a quarter inches long.

This doesn't feel like it had 8 ftlb with the new double springs installed and new leather washer. Although I havnt put it through a chrono but I'm sure it's probably only pushing out 3ftlbs as the pellet bounced off a piece of pine

I've tried cocking the riffle then letting of with the tap in the load position to see if it holds air. Most of the time it does hold ait but there is air bubbling out from this area too which lasts about 3 seconds or so and it releases all the air in the chamber.

I've checked the tap numbers are the same as the rifle and they are the same. Unless I've got the wrong springs from John knibs which I bought a few years ago now. Or the piston seal needs to be looser??

[Airsporter1st]

Thanks guys, oh and sorry for the mistake it meant to read 32 and a quarter inches long.

This doesn't feel like it had 8 ftlb with the new double springs installed and new leather washer. Although I havnt put it through a chrono but I'm sure it's probably only pushing out 3ftlbs as the pellet bounced off a piece of pine

I've tried cocking the riffle then letting of with the tap in the load position to see if it holds air. Most of the time it does hold ait but there is air bubbling out from this area too which lasts about 3 seconds or so and it releases all the air in the chamber.

I've checked the tap numbers are the same as the rifle and they are the same. Unless I've got the wrong springs from John knibs which I bought a few years ago now. Or the piston seal needs to be looser??

If its a leather piston seal, they can take some time to bed in again once they've been out/if new. Did you give it a good soaking before fitting it?

[Dan944]

If its a leather piston seal, they can take some time to bed in again once they've been out/if new. Did you give it a good soaking before fitting it?

Hi Paul, yes I left it soaking for a week and when I fitted it I realised it needed a good few mm taken off as the original measured 26.9 I believe. So I put the piston in the lath and kept taking it down with sand paper Untill it was the same diameter and still it was tight to get in at first but seems to moove quite nice with the underleaver.

Would it be worth retro fitting with a more modern piston seal do you think or should I preserver?

I just didn't know why it was so low as the pellets more times than not bounce back at 8 yards, albeit they make a 4mm dent.

I've only tried one pellet which is a thunderbolt very light but very long.

Was thinking if doing a oring conversion cap if I can't figure it out, but I really would rather have it shooting original.

Thanks
Daniel

[Airsporter1st]

Hi Paul, yes I left it soaking for a week and when I fitted it I realised it needed a good few mm taken off as the original measured 26.9 I believe. So I put the piston in the lath and kept taking it down with sand paper Untill it was the same diameter and still it was tight to get in at first but seems to moove quite nice with the underleaver.

Would it be worth retro fitting with a more modern piston seal do you think or should I preserver?

I just didn't know why it was so low as the pellets more times than not bounce back at 8 yards, albeit they make a 4mm dent.

I've only tried one pellet which is a thunderbolt very light but very long.

Was thinking if doing a oring conversion cap if I can't figure it out, but I really would rather have it shooting original.

Thanks
Daniel

I definitely think you should stick with the leather washer, but I'm wondering whether you perhaps undersized the other one. Being cup shaped its not normally necessary to size them as you would a polymer seal, just a matter of squeezing down on the OD to get it in.

Have you tried firing a few times with the tap open? that's what I usually do to make the seal conform to the cylinder wall.

[Garvin]

With that serial number your Club Standard dates from the early 1920s and consequently will be full length and potentially more powerful. Measure it from the heel of the butt in a line to the muzzle of the barrel.

[Dan944]

I definitely think you should stick with the leather washer, but I'm wondering whether you perhaps undersized the other one. Being cup shaped its not normally necessary to size them as you would a polymer seal, just a matter of squeezing down on the OD to get it in.

Have you tried firing a few times with the tap open? that's what I usually do to make the seal conform to the cylinder wall.

Hi paul, yes i fired it a few times to try and squash the seal aginst the wall if you like, but if its a case of shooting quite a few pellets and the power may go up, then i will persevier. I just expected it to be maybe in the 6-7 ftlbs mark and pellets sticking in the wood at that range so its a little strange??

Ill try different pellets and see what happens. I may have a little trouble getting a reading from my combro, so may have to wait till sat to go to my club and use there scan if possible.

Has yours got the double spring or am i gonna be under power with this set up.

Thanks
Daniel

[Dan944]

With that serial number your Club Standard dates from the early 1920s and consequently will be full length and potentially more powerful. Measure it from the heel of the butt in a line to the muzzle of the barrel.

Hi garvin,
I will have to wait a few days, as i have a stock on its way to me, and apart from a trigger guard and a few screws i would have restored the gun, as i got given it with only the action minus sights, underleaver catch, trigger guard and stock.

Am really looking forward to using it at the club on the plinker, although im sure allot of friends will think ive finally gone mad, but i get such a pleasure out of shooting old guns as it takes me back to the start everytime i pick one up!

Thanks
Daniel

[Dan944]

Managed to chrono it tonight and as i thought. or worse should i say, it was doing 1.4ftlbs with jsb 8.4 grain.

I tried a few good condition older leather washers with tge same effect. Put in a heavy tx metal top hat and went up to 2ftlb

I got a little frustrated as i did the open tap test after puting a little grease around it tgen installing it again and it held every bit of air from the piston, so i thought that maybe i have a slight bulg in the cylinder???

I then made up a end cap on the lath to replace the leather washer and made a retro fit oring seal which ive never tried before. And to my amazement it went 13ftlb 12ftlb 9.44ftlb then settled on 5.4ftlb with a variation of 1 feet per second in 10 shots.(was quite impressed)

I then looked at the oring and noticed tgere was a little nik taken out from where it gets cuaght on the trigger block thread going in, so i have retired for tonight and i will carring on tommorow hopefully.

I put the first few high ftbls down to dieseling as i coated tge oring in a little oil in an attempt not to get cuaght on the threading for the trigger block.

I seem to have no luck when it comes to old guns and power, i had this trouble with a couple of webley mk3,s i bought which ended up having a swollen chamber from over dieselling.

Hope i can at least get this one up to 8ftlbs as i will deffinately keep it my collection for good and am looking forward to plinking with it