What sort of power did these bsa standards give out in .177?

[ggggr]

go back to a leather seal. If there was a bulge in the cylinder, then leather would take it up better than another sort of seal. You are usually advised to fit the washer dry and then put some oil in the tap and stand the gun up for 4 days or so. This makes it easier to fit than pre soaking. On some of the washers made (pretty much as one offs rather than making up a batch), and soaked, left them in a slightly smaller cylinder to form. I then left the screw that holds them slightly loose and then tightened it through the cocking lever slot.
You may have a leak at the cylinder end plug, but just go for checking the tap is aligned and sort out a leather piston washer for now.
The barrel is clean I take it?

[Dan944]

go back to a leather seal. If there was a bulge in the cylinder, then leather would take it up better than another sort of seal. You are usually advised to fit the washer dry and then put some oil in the tap and stand the gun up for 4 days or so. This makes it easier to fit than pre soaking. On some of the washers made (pretty much as one offs rather than making up a batch), and soaked, left them in a slightly smaller cylinder to form. I then left the screw that holds them slightly loose and then tightened it through the cocking lever slot.
You may have a leak at the cylinder end plug, but just go for checking the tap is aligned and sort out a leather piston washer for now.
The barrel is clean I take it?

Hi grrrrr,
The barrel could do with a good clean to be honest, I started with a nice plastic rod brush set, but ended up snapping the holder so havnt been able to give it a good clean.

Do you think that would be enough to give such low readings ?

[ggggr]

Hi grrrrr,
The barrel could do with a good clean to be honest, I started with a nice plastic rod brush set, but ended up snapping the holder so havnt been able to give it a good clean.

Do you think that would be enough to give such low readings ?

Only really if the barrel was very cruddy---either rusty of crap stuck in the rifling. I have had really rough guns that I had to put a brass brush through.
I think the problem is more likely to be the piston washer or the tap not aligned. If you have the piston out again, look in the cylinder and see if the tap and barrel are aligned.

[Dan944]

Only really if the barrel was very cruddy---either rusty of crap stuck in the rifling. I have had really rough guns that I had to put a brass brush through.
I think the problem is more likely to be the piston washer or the tap not aligned. If you have the piston out again, look in the cylinder and see if the tap and barrel are aligned.

I did check the alignment when I checked to see if the tap numbers and the rifle numbers taleyed up to be the same part, and they did. And I also did look through the back of the cylinder with tap open and all seemed to be a pure hole all the way through.

I suppose I could buy another piston seal or make one tighter out of 5mm hard leather I have somewhere.

Tell me, should the piston seal be of a tight fit once in the chamber,or should it be able to slide up and down by pushing and pulling with the hand to feel like a modern parachute seal inside the chamber like a modern 97 or tx let's say. Becuase I literally took enough off the new leather seal as not to get ripped up by the thread in the rear of the block that the trigger block screws into, so it becoming frustrating.

Also do you line the chamber with any grease or oils for the piston to slide easier??? (

[Garvin]

I did check the alignment when I checked to see if the tap numbers and the rifle numbers taleyed up to be the same part, and they did. And I also did look through the back of the cylinder with tap open and all seemed to be a pure hole all the way through.

I suppose I could buy another piston seal or make one tighter out of 5mm hard leather I have somewhere.

Tell me, should the piston seal be of a tight fit once in the chamber,or should it be able to slide up and down by pushing and pulling with the hand to feel like a modern parachute seal inside the chamber like a modern 97 or tx let's say. Becuase I literally took enough off the new leather seal as not to get ripped up by the thread in the rear of the block that the trigger block screws into, so it becoming frustrating.

Also do you line the chamber with any grease or oils for the piston to slide easier??? (

These questions are anwered HERE. More topics HERE.

[Dan944]

These questions are anwered HERE. More topics HERE.

Thanks for these links, I've found some of these before, great info.

I will preserver and try and make another leather seal and try different tightness, maybe a little looser and one a little tighter.

[junglie]

[QUOTE=Dan944;6010712]Hi Paul, yes I left it soaking for a week and when I fitted it I realised it needed a good few mm taken off as the original measured 26.9 I believe. So I put the piston in the lath and kept taking it down with sand paper Untill it was the same diameter and still it was tight to get in at first but seems to moove quite nice with the underleaver.

Would it be worth retro fitting with a more modern piston seal do you think or should I preserver?

I just didn't know why it was so low as the pellets more times than not bounce back at 8 yards, albeit they make a 4mm dent.

I've only tried one pellet which is a thunderbolt very light but very long. Try it with some lead pellets first, & I'd advise against a pine or any wood backstop, those thunderbolts come back as fast as they went from wood when they rebound. I wonder if you cleaned all the sand off when you sized the seal with sandpaper? I'd use wet & dry for this as sandpaper leaves lots of grit behind, could have scored the cylinder? New leather seals from chambers were rubbish when I tried them, more like hard pressed fake leather & not as good as the old seal.

[Dan944]

[QUOTE=junglie;6011753]

Hi Paul, yes I left it soaking for a week and when I fitted it I realised it needed a good few mm taken off as the original measured 26.9 I believe. So I put the piston in the lath and kept taking it down with sand paper Untill it was the same diameter and still it was tight to get in at first but seems to moove quite nice with the underleaver.

Would it be worth retro fitting with a more modern piston seal do you think or should I preserver?

I just didn't know why it was so low as the pellets more times than not bounce back at 8 yards, albeit they make a 4mm dent.

I've only tried one pellet which is a thunderbolt very light but very long. Try it with some lead pellets first, & I'd advise against a pine or any wood backstop, those thunderbolts come back as fast as they went from wood when they rebound. I wonder if you cleaned all the sand off when you sized the seal with sandpaper? I'd use wet & dry for this as sandpaper leaves lots of grit behind, could have scored the cylinder? New leather seals from chambers were rubbish when I tried them, more like hard pressed fake leather & not as good as the old seal.

Thanks , I did clean off the leather with white spirit before I put it all together, but maybe the seal was not sized enough?

The thing that confuses me is that before I changed all the internals ur springs and seal. The gun used to shoot but at the same very very low power.

I will have a go at making a few new leather seals of different tightnesses and see if it works. Only got an hour tonight to fettle which is annoying but I just wish I could source the reason why it's only 2 ftlb with the leather washer but when the tap is open and gun dry fired it holds up most of the air ????

I think I am going to investigate the inside of this barrel further just incase it is slowing the pellet right down with crud or any rust ect. And I may also try and shoot a few pellet into a rag to see if I can see any unusual scores?

Thanks for all who have tried to help me so far, I really appreciate it as always and it's good to have many ideas and all your knowledge, I appreciate it

[Imelda]

These questions are anwered HERE. More topics HERE.

I could have done with seeing this earlier.Just changed the seal.My thumb still bears the scars- bled like a stuck pig.Chambers advised me to soak it for 24 hrs pre fitting.Not sure what power it is putting out but it puts holes in a can at 25 yards which is good enough for me.
Imelda

[Dan944]

Hi guys, just had a quick look at the riffle and fitted the new stock. I noticed 2 things, 1 that wow this is a very long and heavy rifle, it measures 45inches front of barrel to the rear of the butt of the stock.

Secondly I shon a torch and had a look inside the barrel, and lo and behold there are a few build ups of what I can only assume rust. So I am hoping to be able to remoove the majority of it this week with some casey rust and blue remoover and something to brush it inside with? Do they sell any sort of thin copper or plastic rods for .177?

I am hoping that this is the cause of such a low power. As I just tested it with the leather seal and its reading 3 ftlb with jsb 8.4 grains ( very low )

[daveh]

Hi Daniel, it sounds as though a good rodding with a brass brush should give you more power. It should not be necessary to use bore cleaner[used mainly for rim/centre fire ammunition.
Regards, Daveh

[ggggr]

Hi guys, just had a quick look at the riffle and fitted the new stock. I noticed 2 things, 1 that wow this is a very long and heavy rifle, it measures 45inches front of barrel to the rear of the butt of the stock.

Secondly I shon a torch and had a look inside the barrel, and lo and behold there are a few build ups of what I can only assume rust. So I am hoping to be able to remoove the majority of it this week with some casey rust and blue remoover and something to brush it inside with? Do they sell any sort of thin copper or plastic rods for .177?

I am hoping that this is the cause of such a low power. As I just tested it with the leather seal and its reading 3 ftlb with jsb 8.4 grains ( very low )

Cleaning rod kits sometimes come with brass brushes in them. I noticed a kit up at MAG today with a few brushes. A lot of people say dont use a brass brush but if the barrel is really cruddy, I cannot really see the harm.

You could take the tap out stick a bit of kitchen towel in it's place and then give the barrel a squirt with some WD 40/Plus gas etc. done this a few times and used a bit or kitchen towel in the muzzle as well.
leave the tap out and the towel in when you do use a cleaning rod to stop any crud getting into the cylinder.

[Dan944]

I just ordered some new brass cleaning rods and some birch casey rust remoover, so what I was thinking is to fill the barrel up with it for 10 mins then rod it a few times with the tap out and bunged as grrrrr said above, then wash out with white spirit and start over again!

And hopefully I can get some results this way.

[Lakey]

I have been reading this thread with great interest. These guns have been around a long time, and whilst you do occasionally come across guns which have been subject to horrible abuse over the years firing matchsticks, nails, bent wire, stones etc etc, most guns just need a bit of TLC, the odd new spring or piston seal in order to get them shooting well again. I have really been puzzled by your gun.

One area that is repeated neglected is barrel cleaning. I have lost count of the amount of times I have 'restored' a poor shooting BSA simply by deep cleaning the barrel. The deposits of grime and crud build up over the years, and attract moisture which further blocks the barrel with rust etc. BSA's had polygrove rifling and a mirror finish to the inside of the barrel when they left the factory.

The technique I use is to totally strip the barrel and cylinder down, removing piston, spring, tap etc. Then I plug the end of the barrel with a paper plug wrapped around with cling film and tapped into the end of the barrel. I stand the barrel in a jam jar muzzle down and pour in parker Hale OO9, and leave the barrel full up, overnight or ideally for a day or so. Then once emptied out I use a phosphor bronze .177 brush to brush out the bore (ocasionally using a bit of very fine wire wool wrapped around a jag, if deposits are really stubborn) If you dont have a .177 rod, use fine string or cord tied through the loop at the end of the brush. Once I am satisfied that I have 90% of the dirt out I use a fine mop dipped in oil as a final wipe through, or tubes of kitchen roll, dipped in, oil then lightly tapped up the barrel.
Once you have restored the bore, I believe your velocities will increase significantly.

Cheers

Lakey

[Dan944]

I have been reading this thread with great interest. These guns have been around a long time, and whilst you do occasionally come across guns which have been subject to horrible abuse over the years firing matchsticks, nails, bent wire, stones etc etc, most guns just need a bit of TLC, the odd new spring or piston seal in order to get them shooting well again. I have really been puzzled by your gun.

One area that is repeated neglected is barrel cleaning. I have lost count of the amount of times I have 'restored' a poor shooting BSA simply by deep cleaning the barrel. The deposits of grime and crud build up over the years, and attract moisture which further blocks the barrel with rust etc. BSA's had polygrove rifling and a mirror finish to the inside of the barrel when they left the factory.

The technique I use is to totally strip the barrel and cylinder down, removing piston, spring, tap etc. Then I plug the end of the barrel with a paper plug wrapped around with cling film and tapped into the end of the barrel. I stand the barrel in a jam jar muzzle down and pour in parker Hale OO9, and leave the barrel full up, overnight or ideally for a day or so. Then once emptied out I use a phosphor bronze .177 brush to brush out the bore (ocasionally using a bit of very fine wire wool wrapped around a jag, if deposits are really stubborn) If you dont have a .177 rod, use fine string or cord tied through the loop at the end of the brush. Once I am satisfied that I have 90% of the dirt out I use a fine mop dipped in oil as a final wipe through, or tubes of kitchen roll, dipped in, oil then lightly tapped up the barrel.
Once you have restored the bore, I believe your velocities will increase significantly.

Cheers

Lakey

Thanks Lakey,
I really hope your right mate, I must admit, when I recieved the stock today and put it on , I actually fell in love with this rifle. There's something seriously special about these. Even my wife loves the look of it!

Thanks for sharing your technique with me, and I look forward to trying to clean this out and see what the outcome is. At present it's the only thing I can see which is robbing it of all it's power, becuase I bet even with a few nicks taken out of a leather piston seal you should at least see 6ftlb or so and not 1.4 - 2 ftlb which is what I'm seeing with brand new genuing double springs and new seal from John knibs.

Hope to solve this soon, just need to wait till my rods arrive

Thanks to all so far