What sort of power did these bsa standards give out in .177?

[Dan944]

Okey Dokey...Taken from a sweet shooting .22 standard just now (10.95 energy);

Overall length 260mm ....now this is not all you need as the spring is not new, what you need also is the wire gauge = 0.127" / 3.20mm and the number of coils = 33

From memory, this is very close to Airsporter spec, may even be one as I bought a few N.O.S. ones a spell back, and have not noted which guns I used them on

They can work well in Standards, normally better in the .22's, which are (IMHO) normally slightly sweeter / smoother than the .177's in 45" size.

Another fly in the ointment is that the number of coils versus spring length can vary due to quality of winding...original vintage BSA springs are very consistent, with the distance between coils varying by very little (talking thous here!) whereas some patterns I have seen have been all over the shop, and have had "looser" winding, giving a greater length / preload.

HTH, Regards, Ed

Thanks for that usefull info ed, i will measure a few springs i Have and see if i have anything similar to try and if not, maybe ill order an airsporter one just to give it a go.

I forgot to mension that the bsa longtom i shot today was in .22

Im wondering if this is mostly spring related? Getting the right amount of coils and gauge and preload? Ive had a few conversion projects with this problem but still feels alot of effort to get it higher.

I have a question regarding the trigger pull weight. Can someone please explain to me if and how you can lighten this trigger, as it is reeeeeeeeally heavy!

Im not sure if i have a few screws missing on the side of he trigger block where it says adjust H. L

I will take a few photos tommorow and post them if that identifies any screws missing. I hav all three on the side that says lock, all be it i dont think the large one that looks like it goes through the sear is genuine, as it is a phillips and not a flat head.

Many thanks

[edbear2]

Hi, trigger adjustment is by way, as you say, of the hi-lo screw set. looking at the breech block from the side with the stamped markings the rear hole has two screws in from opposite sides.

From the left (as you aim the gun as normal) the screw has a tapered shaft and flat end, from the right goes the lock screw, which has a flat end. The system works in a basic way in that the taper portion of the screw bears against the trigger and effectively "pulls" it, ie. dis-engages it with the sear as the screw goes further in. Once you are happy with the pull, the opposite screw is tightened which jams against it to prevent movement. Use two screwdrivers for precise adjustment, ie. to prevent the hi-low screw moving whilst you tighten the lock screw.

John Knibbs has these showing on his website at £8.50 per screw, ie £17 plus postage the set....

I may (will check later) have a set here...will update.

trigger / sear layout here;

http://www.flickr.com/photos/3122848...-7Aep9k-82G8ch

Note;...Do not go too light on the pull weight, as this can cause an unsafe gun with the possibility of both an N.D., and serious damage to the sear, which is prone to crack if very little overlap is created.

Also...Check piston rod for movement in piston, and pull piston to rear of cylinder and check for play as these can be an issue if you start trying to get a light pull off.

Lowest safe weight, with trigger and sear engagement faces in mint condition, all pivots good, and a solid and VGC notch area piston rod, is about 2 1/2 pounds...normally the factory set these around 4 pounds, and if ANY doubt stay around this figure...buy a low range spring balance like fishermen use, and bend the hook or rig up something to allow accurate measurement to prevent tears and expense

ATB, ED

[Dan944]

Hi, trigger adjustment is by way, as you say, of the hi-lo screw set. looking at the breech block from the side with the stamped markings the rear hole has two screws in from opposite sides.

From the left (as you aim the gun as normal) the screw has a tapered shaft and flat end, from the right goes the lock screw, which has a flat end. The system works in a basic way in that the taper portion of the screw bears against the trigger and effectively "pulls" it, ie. dis-engages it with the sear as the screw goes further in. Once you are happy with the pull, the opposite screw is tightened which jams against it to prevent movement. Use two screwdrivers for precise adjustment, ie. to prevent the hi-low screw moving whilst you tighten the lock screw.

John Knibbs has these showing on his website at £8.50 per screw, ie £17 plus postage the set....

I may (will check later) have a set here...will update.

trigger / sear layout here;

http://www.flickr.com/photos/3122848...-7Aep9k-82G8ch

Note;...Do not go too light on the pull weight, as this can cause an unsafe gun with the possibility of both an N.D., and serious damage to the sear, which is prone to crack if very little overlap is created.

Also...Check piston rod for movement in piston, and pull piston to rear of cylinder and check for play as these can be an issue if you start trying to get a light pull off.

Lowest safe weight, with trigger and sear engagement faces in mint condition, all pivots good, and a solid and VGC notch area piston rod, is about 2 1/2 pounds...normally the factory set these around 4 pounds, and if ANY doubt stay around this figure...buy a low range spring balance like fishermen use, and bend the hook or rig up something to allow accurate measurement to prevent tears and expense

ATB, ED

Thanks for that ED,

I'm a little stuck then at present, as I've no screws present on the side where it says H & L I've only got the ones on the other side where it says lock.

If you happen to have any let me know and I'll buy them off you, if not ill have to order some from john knibbs.

I wondered why I couldn't figure it out.

So let me get this straight ed should I have 5 screws in total? 3 on the side where it says lock and 2 on the other side where it says H & L?

Thanks

[edbear2]

Thanks for that ED,


So let me get this straight ed should I have 5 screws in total? 3 on the side where it says lock and 2 on the other side where it says H & L?

Thanks

No, 4 in total, two long pivot screws that show their ends on the LHS of the gun (as shown in link...one trigger and one sear), and two for the trigger adjustment, one from each side

ATB, Ed

[Dan944]

No, 4 in total, two long pivot screws that show their ends on the LHS of the gun (as shown in link...one trigger and one sear), and two for the trigger adjustment, one from each side

ATB, Ed

Thanks ED,
Will take the ones i have out later and see if they match the ones in your link.

Cheers for your help mate

[edbear2]

Thanks ED,
Will take the ones i have out later and see if they match the ones in your link.

Cheers for your help mate

Hi Dan...If you look at the link I put regarding the trigger and sear, you will see they have a spring between them, this should have a ball nosed little steel insert on the end of it...make a note of which way it comes out, and when out give it a polish.

You can also lightly polish the bearing surfaces of the two pivot screws, and check the sear and trigger notches really closely for burrs and cracks / damage. If you know what you are doing, you can tickle these up with a stone / abrasive paper on a block.

Bear in mind that the sear and trigger, once the screws are out, will move apart a tad due to spring pressure...it's best to remove both screws at once, and withdraw the trigger / sear as an assembly. (refer to that photo in the link) and replace the same way (as an assembly) with a dab of moly on the spring insert, and in the pocket drilling of the other end of the spring.

I always put a dab of moly on both pivot screws before fitting as well.

Once in the gun, fit the trigger pivot first, then, working from the other side with a small rod with a taper on, pull the sear into line (it won't line up due to spring pressure) from the left hand side, whilst at the same time pressing the sear pivot screw lightly from the opposite side until it lines up and clicks in, you can then engage the threads and tighten.


Sound complicated, but takes twice as long to write as it does to do it

ATB, Ed

[Dan944]

Hi Dan...If you look at the link I put regarding the trigger and sear, you will see they have a spring between them, this should have a ball nosed little steel insert on the end of it...make a note of which way it comes out, and when out give it a polish.

You can also lightly polish the bearing surfaces of the two pivot screws, and check the sear and trigger notches really closely for burrs and cracks / damage. If you know what you are doing, you can tickle these up with a stone / abrasive paper on a block.

Bear in mind that the sear and trigger, once the screws are out, will move apart a tad due to spring pressure...it's best to remove both screws at once, and withdraw the trigger / sear as an assembly. (refer to that photo in the link) and replace the same way (as an assembly) with a dab of moly on the spring insert, and in the pocket drilling of the other end of the spring.

I always put a dab of moly on both pivot screws before fitting as well.

Once in the gun, fit the trigger pivot first, then, working from the other side with a small rod with a taper on, pull the sear into line (it won't line up due to spring pressure) from the left hand side, whilst at the same time pressing the sear pivot screw lightly from the opposite side until it lines up and clicks in, you can then engage the threads and tighten.


Sound complicated, but takes twice as long to write as it does to do it

ATB, Ed

Cheers ED,

I look forward to recieving the screws I'm missing and striping this trigger block out and polishing up the contact surfaces as this thing is full of gunk!

Thanks for the help, looking forward to sorting it. (Bit at a time, but at least I'm getting there slowly but surely)

[edbear2]

Hi Dan, just re-reading this and think that your gun being a 22 thousand series is actually earlier than mentioned and is closer to 1924, if this is the case it is an early CS gun as this is apparently around the period when BSA started making the .177 versions of the standard to accommodate club / target shooters . If your piston washer is the "normal" type, ie. with a screw through the middle, it is pre 1929/30 when the "improved" (actually pretty rubbish IMHO) new washer system was introduced, which is a threaded post protruding from the piston end, and the washer secured by a threaded thick metal disc with two tooling holes drilled in it.

ATB, Ed

[Dan944]

Hi Dan, just re-reading this and think that your gun being a 22 thousand series is actually earlier than mentioned and is closer to 1924, if this is the case it is an early CS gun as this is apparently around the period when BSA started making the .177 versions of the standard to accommodate club / target shooters . If your piston washer is the "normal" type, ie. with a screw through the middle, it is pre 1929/30 when the "improved" (actually pretty rubbish IMHO) new washer system was introduced, which is a threaded post protruding from the piston end, and the washer secured by a threaded thick metal disc with two tooling holes drilled in it.

ATB, Ed

Hi ED,
Yes this one has the piston with the screw that fastens the piston seal down through a funnel type metal washer to compress the leather.


I'm looking forward to the screws and to getting the trigger lighter in order to have a little plink as it is, and see if them scores in the barrel are affecting accuracy at all ?

I suppose I should really buy myself a airsporter spring to try if it makes any power difference?

[keith66]

If its any help i was after a spring for my old Imp mod D & going through a box of springs found that a Fwb sport spring was a perfect fit in the piston. I had to cut quite a lot off it as its far too long but it worked a treat. Then had to trim it some more. shot to shot consistency was 5fps or less.

[Dan944]

If its any help i was after a spring for my old Imp mod D & going through a box of springs found that a Fwb sport spring was a perfect fit in the piston. I had to cut quite a lot off it as its far too long but it worked a treat. Then had to trim it some more. shot to shot consistency was 5fps or less.

Hi Keith,
Interesting.
What power was that giving you? And what caliber

Thanks
Daniel

[keith66]

The rifle was the 1910 Imp mod D i refered to in an earlier post, its a .22, if i remember correctly i had to cut approx 4" off the spring to allow it to fit & then had to cut another 3" off it to get below the limit. At no point did it feel oversprung or stressed, but it was just as well i had a chronograph.
Thing is with these & standards they have a big swept volume in the cylinder & there is a lot of potential there.
If you measure the cylinder of an Airsporter compared to a pre war Standard or Mod D its striking how much more volume there is in the older rifles. Also some of the pistons are much heavier with rear extensions, less bounce back at the end of the stroke.
it would be an interesting exercise to take an old one & see what it really is capable of tuned properly with a modern trigger.
You would need an fac though.

[Dan944]

Thanks Keith, that's very interesting, maybe it would be better if I tried one of those as it would give me the option to keep remooving coils rather than not having enough.

Thanks again, it's given me a little hope, that one day soon I may break the 6ftlb I presently can't get past.

All the best
Daniel

[edbear2]

Thanks Keith, that's very interesting, maybe it would be better if I tried one of those as it would give me the option to keep remooving coils rather than not having enough.

Thanks again, it's given me a little hope, that one day soon I may break the 6ftlb I presently can't get past.

All the best
Daniel

Hi Daniel, I bet Keith's gun is a 43 inch mate (ie. different to yours) , as I can't see the FWB unit being that much longer than an Airsporter...might be wrong (won't be the first time), but that is my gut feeling.

ATB, Ed

[Garvin]

Hi Daniel, I bet Keith's gun is a 43 inch mate (ie. different to yours) , as I can't see the FWB unit being that much longer than an Airsporter...might be wrong (won't be the first time), but that is my gut feeling.

ATB, Ed

Think you might be wrong on this one, Ed. (But I haven't got both springs to hand so can't be definitive about this. The stock FWB spring is loooooong though.)