Webley Mark II Service Air Rifle

[plumbgun]

Hi folks, Having just purchased one of the above I would be very interested to know any opinions, stories, facts and figures you would be prepared to pass on, also recommended reading. Mine is in .22 and has the serial no. 3984, making it a third series I believe. Although it shoots hard, I am not convinced that it can't be bettered, and am thinking of getting some new piston washers. I wonder how truthful messrs. Webley and Scott were with their claims of accuracy at 80 yards, and their photos of pellets utterly destroyed at 10 yards! I would like to think that when the weapons were new, they lived up to their expectations, and maybe there are people reading this who agree, and can give me some friendly advice.......? Thanks to anyone who has time to share their views.

Paul M.

[wrightonn]

Hi, Paul,if you click on "Full bbs collectors listing" and scroll down the posts, you will find scores (possibly hundreds)of posts re your rifle,one post(I think, by Troubleshooter) is a short history of the Service. Chris Thrale,s book"WEBLEY AIR RIFLES 1925-2005" has all the info about the service .Your rifle will have a single piston ring,not a washer.ATB Ray.

[Abasmajor]

Hello Paul,

The above advice from "wrightonn" should provide all the information you need relating to these lovely old air rifles. As you are probably aware, the First and Second Series are rarer and more sought after among collectors than the more common Third Series. The Third Series was available in .177, .22 and towards the end of production in the much rarer .25 calibre. The" Holy Grail" for Mk2 Service collectors is a cased Third Series three barrel set together with the correct accessories for the period. I own a .25 calibre Mk2 which was designated the "Rook & Rabbit Rifle" and was specifically meant for hunting small game. Although I have been pleasantly surprised with the accuracy of this calibre as BSA concluded when they discontinued the.25 calibre prior to WW1, it provides little advantage over the .22 calibre. Mine shoots best using "Rhino" pellets and judging by the noise made when the they strike the steel backing plates probably produces sufficient accuracy and muzzle energy for shooting small game out to around 30 yds.

Regards

Brian

[Fronteria]

I have a third series with the three different calibre barrels and I use sae 40 motor oil as a lubricant it smokes when ever I use it regardless of what calibre barrel I use, I think that the pistons on these rifles have a tiny hole that bleeds oil into the compression chamber as they are cocked which encourages them to diesel when fired.
If I am wrong about the bleed hole in the pistol somebody will no doubt correct me, as I have not had my Webley Service Rifle to bits for thirty years.
I will have to run it through my chronograph just out of interest to see what results I get.
I have shoot a few close range rats with it, but at 80 yards I could hit a barn door but I suspect anything smaller would be perfectly safe providing I aimed at it!

[plumbgun]

Thank you for those helpful replies. Mine smokes too, and even if it is "out shot" by an Airsporter, it is such a lovely thing in its own right, that I am very pleased with it. The answer to my next question is probably already in the material that I have been refered to, but I'd like to know if there were at least two types of rear sight. I have the option on a .177 Service - 4231 - which is missing sight blade, spring and wheel. The blade for THIS one goes inside a groove on the housing, rather than a slot. Just curious, as this particular rifle seems extremely powerful. Thanks again.

[wrightonn]

Hi, Fronteria, the pistons do have a bleed hole leading onto the piston ring groove,I wonder, (with modern lubes) if this is necessary? will the power be more even without the diesel effect? have any members tried this mod?ATB Ray,

[Fronteria]

Hi, Fronteria, the pistons do have a bleed hole leading onto the piston ring groove,I wonder, (with modern lubes) if this is necessary? will the power be more even without the diesel effect? have any members tried this mod?ATB Ray,

I don't think the oil bleed hole is necessary with the modern lubricants, but I use straight sae 40 which is as old as the hills (Vigsol sae 40, I bet you have never heard of that oil company) which is more fun as to shoot when you see the expression on the face of the guy who is next to you in the range when they see the cloud of smoke and the smoking barrel, and of course you just have to blow the smoke from the barrel to make a point, before you reload it!
The way these diesel I think that they were designed to get a certain amount of their power from dieseling which is frowned upon today but was quite exceptable by the original owners of these air rifles.

[Troubledshooter]

The 'Service' rifle was indeed designed to withstand a certain amount of dieseling, using SAE30 oil which was the lubricant supplied by Webley as No.2 Oil at the time, unlike the Mk.III rifle which certainly was not, as some buyers found out to their cost.
Many moons ago, I worked for a company who were the agents for 'Vigzol', and still have a couple of tins of their grease and oil in the garage.

[Fronteria]

The 'Service' rifle was indeed designed to withstand a certain amount of dieseling, using SAE30 oil which was the lubricant supplied by Webley as No.2 Oil at the time, unlike the Mk.III rifle which certainly was not, as some buyers found out to their cost.
Many moons ago, I worked for a company who were the agents for 'Vigzol', and still have a couple of tins of their grease and oil in the garage.

Hi. Troubledshooter
I never expected anyone to have even heard of the Vigzol oil company!
I first come across it after I finished my apprenticeship at Ford Motor Company and went and worked at a truck main dealer as I didn't want to work on cars which was Fords main production at the time, the production of the Thames Trader was announced a year after I left, they were also agents for Vigzol which they sold across Essex, as they were also Ford car and tractor main dealers
I have only some Vigzol sae 40 left but it doesn't appear to be detrimental to the air rifle as I have using it in the service rifle for forty years, has I said I last stripped it down and basically cleaned it about thirty years ago, it still has the same spring and piston ring in it as I couldn't see anything wrong with them then so I didn't replace them and as far as I can judge it still shoots about the same as it ever did, I have never run it across my chronograph which I might do in the next few days what results should I expect from it in each calibre?

[deejayuu]

Hello Paul, photo's of your latest would be nice. Some of us can't resist. Only advice may be see an addiction therapist 'cos I bet you want/get another or few!
Good fun!

[Troubledshooter]

Hi. Troubledshooter
I never expected anyone to have even heard of the Vigzol oil company!
I first come across it after I finished my apprenticeship at Ford Motor Company and went and worked at a truck main dealer as I didn't want to work on cars which was Fords main production at the time, the production of the Thames Trader was announced a year after I left, they were also agents for Vigzol which they sold across Essex, as they were also Ford car and tractor main dealers
I have only some Vigzol sae 40 left but it doesn't appear to be detrimental to the air rifle as I have using it in the service rifle for forty years, has I said I last stripped it down and basically cleaned it about thirty years ago, it still has the same spring and piston ring in it as I couldn't see anything wrong with them then so I didn't replace them and as far as I can judge it still shoots about the same as it ever did, I have never run it across my chronograph which I might do in the next few days what results should I expect from it in each calibre?

The company I worked for were sales and sevice agents for BMC Nuffield tractors, and David Brown track laying vehicles.
We were also contractors transporting fodder all over the south, including some London stables on occasion.
Our main transpoprt vehicles were LWB 'Thames Traders' with a few 'Dennis' wagons as well.

As the man above has said, collecting Webley Service rifles can become something of a obsession, the only known 'cure' being to buy another one.

[Garvin]

As the man above has said, collecting Webley Service rifles can become something of a obsession, the only known 'cure' being to buy another one.

That sounds less like 'cure' and more like 'medication'.

[plumbgun]

Hi and thanks for the shared enthusiasm. I will send my photos privately because I have yet to read or find a clear explanation of how to post them on this site! Infact I DID get the other one, and am repairing the crack in the stock as I write this (well the glue is going off anyway)


Paul M.

Hello Paul, photo's of your latest would be nice. Some of us can't resist. Only advice may be see an addiction therapist 'cos I bet you want/get another or few!
Good fun!

[edbear2]

I will send my photos privately because I have yet to read or find a clear explanation of how to post them on this site! Infact I DID get the other one, and am repairing the crack in the stock as I write this (well the glue is going off anyway)
Paul M.

Hi Paul, regarding photos...You cannot post "direct" in this section, so have to join a third party photograph hosting website like Flikr (my favourite), or photobucket, imageshack etc. etc.

To join these is free and simple, just a username and password as on here.

You then upload your images to the photo website, and then open both the BBS and the photo site on your desktop, you bring up the photo you want then highlight the address and copy and paste in full, ie;

http://www.flickr.com/photos/3122848...Xtcs/lightbox/

Or...You can use the tools above the box when you are writing posts to create a hyperlink, ie. a highlighted word that contains the same link as above, to do this you highlight the word you want to be the link, then click on the little picture of the world with an "8" on it's side in the toolbox...this brings up a little box in which you paste the link;

Like THIS

My apologies in advance if this comes over as simplistic, I was on here for ages before I plucked up the courage to ask in non airgun... "How do you do the coloured word linky thing?"

You can do big type in different fonts, and different colours as well if you mess around with the tools...that's about as much as I know...The latter not much use in this section, but handy to emphasise a point, or to highlight a part of a previous posters quote when in other sections of the forum.

Have a play, If I can do it, it must be easy!

ATB, Ed

[Fronteria]

The company I worked for were sales and sevice agents for BMC Nuffield tractors, and David Brown track laying vehicles.
We were also contractors transporting fodder all over the south, including some London stables on occasion.
Our main transpoprt vehicles were LWB 'Thames Traders' with a few 'Dennis' wagons as well.

As the man above has said, collecting Webley Service rifles can become something of a obsession, the only known 'cure' being to buy another one.

Hi Troubledshooter
I had an interview for a workshop controllers job down your way it was at Coulters of Evesham, I got the job but turned it down as I was offered a job in engineering management in Lever brothers.
I could do with some treatment for this obsession as I have lost count at sixty of how many air rifles and pistols and section 58's there are in my collection.