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Thread: Webley versus Steyr shock!!!!

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  1. #1
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    This talk of a target Tempest, as unlikely as it seems (my .22" is in brilliant shape with a great new spring and good seals), has got me thinking of how to adapt the recoil absorber design of my new Pardini K12 to a Webley pistol. It seems simple enough; a polished tungsten cylinder in a matching tube behind the breech, with a small hole going back from the transfer port to this tungsten rod and blasting it rearward at the same moment the pellet goes forward. It damps recoil utterly. If one could turn out such a thing to fit a Tempest, the dynamics would be different obviously, as the problematic mass is moving rearward and is significantly larger/heavier than a pellet. Still, if a quarter to a fifth or so of the airflow could be directed forward at the moment of firing it might be enough to counteract that rearward hammering of the piston somewhat, if not completely. Heck, to achieve accuracy it may even be worth sacrificing 1/2 to 1/3 of the airflow with a larger port.

    Looking at my Tempest it seems the hole in the nitrile breech seal is about 3mm diameter. If one were to bore in from the right hand side of the transfer port block (side opposite the barrel catch lever) into that port starting with a 1.5mm or so drill, then graft on as un-ugly a cylinder as one can come up with to the outside of the pistol in front of that area and connect the two with a threaded coupling (short brass tube, threaded at one end and snugly tapped into the aluminum sight block, soldered to the rear of the cylinder at the other end), it just might work to vent 'surplus' air forward and push a cylinder with it, countering the forward recoil native to the pistol. The threaded coupling could be increased gradually in scale until achieving the desired balance. And if it all fails, well, just make a threaded aluminum bolt to fill the hole, to the right length so as to leave the inside face of the transfer port drilling relatively intact, and loctite that into place, filing off the outer surface and painting it black as if nothing had happened. If it worked the cylinder could be finished to more or less match the pistol's style and affixed to the right side of the aluminum frame however one preferred. I'd probably go with a single tab at the front end of the housing with a hole for a short bolt into the aluminum cylinder housing. And to make the anti-recoil weight (bronze rod perhaps, in a black delrin cylinder? tungsten is expensive and hard to work with common tools) maintainable one could make a front cap threaded into place, with a larger hole of course to allow the cylinder to move freely forward.

  2. #2
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    Blimey Gerard!!!

    You have clearly considered the modification at great length. What we all need now is for a Tempest owner out there to donate their guns body to science for the benefit of us all. I know that GGGrrrrr is also interested in carrying out some Tempest experiments. What we need is for the Burke and Hare equivalent of airgunning engineers to go out and dig up some dead late generation Wobblys. Personally, I agree with Hippo that the later Webley pistols are not in the same league as the older stuff. Nevertheless, it would be genuinely interesting to see what could be achieved with a knackered Tempest, a serious amount of time and some engineering prowess. Hope you are enjoying your shooting over there by the way Gerard!

    Andy
    Member, the Feinwerkbau Sport appreciation Society (over 50's chapter)
    http://www.rivington-riflemen.eu/ Andy, from the North !

  3. #3
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    Enjoying my shooting very well thanks! When I get the time, at least. I'm heading out to my club in 20 minutes for an evening of formal practice, something I've not managed for more than half an hour all week owing to various family stuff (a 7 year old getting ready for school and generally driving me up the wall with his limitless curiosity) and a rather amazing influx of repair work lately. I wish musicians would take a break from breaking their instruments, at least until I get somewhat caught up. And almost as fondly I wish there were more time to get out into the countryside and do some pistol plinking. One of the best forms of meditation I've found. Takes me right back to childhood.

    As for a lot of thinking... no, not really. I saw the thread update, hit 'reply' and started typing as I thought about it. Might be utter nonsense for all I know. If my Tempest were in rough shape I'd give it a go myself, but it's lovely, so no. The thing lets me shoot 1" groups at 5 metres which seems good enough for a pistol jumping so much on firing. I actually enjoy my Junior more, but still wouldn't want to mar the Tempest. And both of those and my pristine Senior provide great trigger control training for my real love of 10 metre AP competition. I'll try and beat my personal best of 553 tonight...

    Best of luck with this. I'm sure there are far more Tempests kicking around in your neck of the woods than over here.

  4. #4
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    ggggr is offline part time super hero and seeker of justice
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amac View Post
    Blimey Gerard!!!

    You have clearly considered the modification at great length. What we all need now is for a Tempest owner out there to donate their guns body to science for the benefit of us all. I know that GGGrrrrr is also interested in carrying out some Tempest experiments. What we need is for the Burke and Hare equivalent of airgunning engineers to go out and dig up some dead late generation Wobblys. Personally, I agree with Hippo that the later Webley pistols are not in the same league as the older stuff. Nevertheless, it would be genuinely interesting to see what could be achieved with a knackered Tempest, a serious amount of time and some engineering prowess. Hope you are enjoying your shooting over there by the way Gerard!

    Andy
    had a quick look at Gerards post and will re read it and try to understand it later.
    What I would like to try is something a lot simpler, that somebody with a lathe could knock up pretty quickly and could be reversed if needed. If a Tempest piston was drilled and tapped, it could always have the earlier Premier washer fitted if the gun needed to be taken back to the original stroke.
    As I said in the earlier post, just a basic thing---shorter mainspring,polished trigger, a small top hat for the mainspring and a longer piston head/washer.
    I prefer shooting .22 but for the "TARGET TEMPEST" I suppose it would have to be in .177.
    Having read Gerards post again, it seems this would be easier to do with an earlier pistol, as a new cylinder end plug could be made up that was slightly longer and bored out to take a weight.A small spring could be put behind this weight to stop it flapping about. guessing a plug about 5/8 to 3/4 longer would do it.

    He is a bit about Tempest?Hurricane trigger fettling. Refer to these pics http://www.airgunspares.com/store/pr...-Trigger-Wide/
    and http://www.airgunspares.com/store/pr...t-Pistol-Sear/
    I use 320 and 400 grit wet and dry paper to do them and they seem ok. With the sear, I polish both sides of the rounded bits on top, even though, the piston should not really touch them. I polish and try to take the angle back a touch more, the angled side of the cut out on the right of the picture. On the long leg I go the front face,the underside and the angled bit where it joins the back. (MORE ON THIS IN A BIT). On the trigger I do the flat face above the arc of the trigger blade, the face behind it and reduce the BUMP between that and the bit going up to the pin hole. This BUMP and the back bit of the leg of the sear are what "pauses" the trigger pull before releasing the piston. If you do a little work on the sear and the trigger, you can hold them in your fingers and rub one against another to get a good idea of this.Even with the BUMP on the trigger taken down a bit,I find slightly rounding the back edge of the sear helps. DO NOT GO MAD DOING THIS! Remember you can always have another go, but you cannot replace material.

    So a bump for a donor piston or rough/cheap .177 Tempest?
    Last edited by ggggr; 06-09-2013 at 05:35 PM. Reason: thought about weight
    Cooler than Mace Windu with a FRO, walking into Members Only and saying "Bitches, be cool"

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amac View Post
    Blimey Gerard!!!

    What we all need now is for a Tempest owner out there to donate their guns body to science .....

    Andy
    .and to fishing weights, dustbin balance, scrap yards.......

    ATB
    Ian
    Founder & ex secretary of Rivington Riflemen.
    www.rivington-riflemen.uk

  6. #6
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    I knew you wouldn't be able to resist that one....
    Member, the Feinwerkbau Sport appreciation Society (over 50's chapter)
    http://www.rivington-riflemen.eu/ Andy, from the North !

  7. #7
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    There must be somebody reading this who can help GGGrrr with his request for a Tempest piston or a dead gun?
    Member, the Feinwerkbau Sport appreciation Society (over 50's chapter)
    http://www.rivington-riflemen.eu/ Andy, from the North !

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by ggggr View Post
    ^Bump for a piston?
    Anybody want to get in on a "TARGET TEMPEST" project?
    Yup - sounds good to me - and it will give us even more to test and write about in our various ongoing Webley tests at RMTC.
    Rossendale Target Shooting Club. Every Tuesday and Thursday evening 7 - 10pm.

  9. #9
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    Surely somebody reading this will have an unloved Wobbly Tempest at the back of their collection looking lost and forlorn? Please be kind to the gun and help to give at a new lease of life in Dr GGGGGRRR Frankensteins experimental airgun division. Just think what might be achieved!!!! A Steyr slaying British made pistol that none superhuman shooters will be able to use to trounce the German hordes.

    Please have pity.

    Andy
    Member, the Feinwerkbau Sport appreciation Society (over 50's chapter)
    http://www.rivington-riflemen.eu/ Andy, from the North !

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