Interesting findings of Walther LP53 and Lucznik

[Josie & John]

No cocking increase, or strain increase as the single mainspring has about the same strength of compression as the 2 stock springs, indeed perhaps very slightly less. However, all that power is released much more smoothly and with much improved efficiency meaning velocity does increase.
The 50fps to 100fps (gun dependant) did required 3 clicks down on the 53 elevation but did not run out of adjustment on either gun.
The gun seems to go off with a sharp fast thock, without the boing and twang when using 2 mainsprings

This modification has got to be worth a try in one of my Walthers. Now for the cheeky part... Bearing in mind I have no workshop and even less engineering skill, what are the chances of you making me up a spring and guide, ready to fit? Naturally, I'll pay for your time and parts.

Kind regards,

John

[clarky]

Would do it for you virtually for free but you would need to get hold of the P18 mainspring as I would not be interested in ordering another on a chance.
Also given the variations in limits and fits across some 53s, I would of course need the gun to hand tool the parts to your particular gun.

[Josie & John]

Would do it for you virtually for free but you would need to get hold of the P18 mainspring as I would not be interested in ordering another on a chance.
Also given the variations in limits and fits across some 53s, I would of course need the gun to hand tool the parts to your particular gun.

Hi Clarky,
At the risk of asking a daft question, what is a P18 mainspring and can you suggest a suitable source? I know a very competent engineer at Bisley and if you don't mind, I'll show him this thread to see if he can make the modifications, as you suggest? That would save sending a pistol to you. Thank you for the offer, however.

Thanks for sharing your results with us -it has certainly given me the inspiration to have these reversible mods carried out on an LP53.

Kind regards,

John

[clarky]

Yes you will need to order the P18 spring which is the same spring offered for the Predom. Type in Lucznik predom pistol tune, or Konceptus. You can choose to buy the full kit or the mainspring on its own.
Your engineer will need to make a Delrin guide rod or modify the one provided by Konceptus (if you order the full kit) to fit your Walthers.
I would go for the full kit. Let me know how you get on.
Had planned to charge you minimally in order to try something slightly different but doubt ill go into production since acquiring a teaching post.

[Josie & John]

Yes you will need to order the P18 spring which is the same spring offered for the Predom. Type in Lucznik predom pistol tune, or Konceptus. You can choose to buy the full kit or the mainspring on its own.
Your engineer will need to make a Delrin guide rod or modify the one provided by Konceptus (if you order the full kit) to fit your Walthers.
I would go for the full kit. Let me know how you get on.
Had planned to charge you minimally in order to try something slightly different but doubt ill go into production since acquiring a teaching post.

Thanks Clarky,
I've just sent off for a Tuning kit as recommended. That was very good of you to offer and I would have been happy to pay you for your time and effort but I'm a little reluctant to trust one of my babies to the mercies of the postal system!

Will let you know how I get on.

Good luck with the teaching post.

John

[clarky]

Thanks Clarky,
I've just sent off for a Tuning kit as recommended. That was very good of you to offer and I would have been happy to pay you for your time and effort but I'm a little reluctant to trust one of my babies to the mercies of the postal system!

Will let you know how I get on.

Good luck with the teaching post.

John

Thanks bro...tell your engineer to go with drilling out the guide rod provided in the kit to go over the guide rod in the pistol with a slip fit.
He may have to skim 1.5mm off the rod length to ensure it does not collide with the piston head guide rod during full cocking

[clarky]

Thanks bro...tell your engineer to go with drilling out the guide rod provided in the kit to go over the guide rod in the pistol with a slip fit.
He may have to skim 1.5mm off the rod length to ensure it does not collide with the piston head guide rod during full cocking

Just to up-date this old post with the conclusion of my work on the LP53 ....i achieved 495 fps and this with the heavier Rws R10 8.2 grain pellet.

The power pod....my own version gave similar to the one now provided but i used a black delrins guide of slightly more slip. The production version is quite tight to facilitate the removal of spring twang but i found my version with 0.1mm clearance inside the spring did not produce any twang in the slightest but released all the spring energy.

I also fitted a TR Robb style piston head but my own version with a piston weight similar to the one in the power pod kit.
Finally after fairly extensive research i found that RWS R10 and Geko work best due to the walthers tight barrel, indeed even in std spec my gun got 407fps.... out gunning my Hw40 before i even started the project.
The Geko gave 405 fps and half inch groups at 8 yds at half the price.

That completes the tuning work, but i later went onto produce a K short barrel version which handles beautifully but requ ires the use of the cocking knob.
Love these Beaver tail Walthers once tuned.

[Bjacobs571]

Someone makes a tuning kit for the LP53 I have seen them at Protek Supplies
http://www.proteksupplies.co.uk/walther-spares.html

[clarky]

Someone makes a tuning kit for the LP53 I have seen them at Protek Supplies
http://www.proteksupplies.co.uk/walther-spares.html

Yes i know.....it was my idea from the outset.
I came up with the idea many moons ago but had nothing to do with the Walther.
It was actually a double spring unit for a Webley Tempest made by Steve Harper.
It ruined the gun really so i back engineered the Walther....using a modified Konceptus kit.

[45flint]

I have been collecting older spring air pistols since retirement about 2 years ago. My first was a as new LP53, very nice gun. I just don't know why people are so interested in increasing power? Mine is at 400 FPS and I would not touch it. I have a Lucznik as well which I have had apart which is about 380? What is more power going to do for you? I just snagged a very nice Haenel 28R which gets 235? It's a absolutely beautiful gun and I'm happy with that speed. It shoots fine and there's less strain on the intervals? Why put a new spring in it to soup it up? I'm shooting at a target 15 - 20 feet away?

[clarky]

I have been collecting older spring air pistols since retirement about 2 years ago. My first was a as new LP53, very nice gun. I just don't know why people are so interested in increasing power? Mine is at 400 FPS and I would not touch it. I have a Lucznik as well which I have had apart which is about 380? What is more power going to do for you? I just snagged a very nice Haenel 28R which gets 235? It's a absolutely beautiful gun and I'm happy with that speed. It shoots fine and there's less strain on the intervals? Why put a new spring in it to soup it up? I'm shooting at a target 15 - 20 feet away?

In all due respects i would actually flip your comments over on their head.....the walther is actually over sprung in its std stock format .....I have worked on the 53 for years and many years before this mod was offered by Proteks..
It is a fabulous gun but i wanted to try and improve it.....probably because it looked fabulous.
The issue is that in the 50s Walther decided on duel mainsprings to give it power from the relatively short stroke but they did not need to over spring it in this way.
The Walther is actually very efficient in its ratios of stroke against piston diameter and almost perfectly balanced with the stock transfer port size.....far more so than any webley pistol.
This is a near on 500 fps gun set up right and not needing of binding and boingy duel springs.
Correctly guide rodded with a spring of similar .....or even slightly less power than that of the duel springs, the single spring will actually place the system under less force and wear will be smoother to cock and fire and the speed of the piston will be much quicker...
So the question is.....why would one not wish to improve it in this way, provided we did not permanently alter the gun, and retain the original internals for a future collector if passed on.
I have converted one of mine to a short k version which looks fantastic and handles even better but im not suggesting that.
Ill wager mine will out shoot yours in accuracy and power terms, is more useful over FT knock downs and everyone loves the thing at my club, consistantly out shooting a HW45
Both mine run 480 to 490 fps and super smooth with potential for 1/2" gps at 10 yards

[45flint]

In all due respects i would actually flip your comments over on their head.....the walther is actually over sprung in its std stock format .....I have worked on the 53 for years and many years before this mod was offered by Proteks..
It is a fabulous gun but i wanted to try and improve it.....probably because it looked fabulous.
The issue is that in the 50s Walther decided on duel mainsprings to give it power from the relatively short stroke but they did not need to over spring it in this way.
The Walther is actually very efficient in its ratios of stroke against piston diameter and almost perfectly balanced with the stock transfer port size.....far more so than any webley pistol.
This is a near on 500 fps gun set up right and not needing of binding and boingy duel springs.
Correctly guide rodded with a spring of similar .....or even slightly less power than that of the duel springs, the single spring will actually place the system under less force and wear will be smoother to cock and fire and the speed of the piston will be much quicker...
So the question is.....why would one not wish to improve it in this way, provided we did not permanently alter the gun, and retain the original internals for a future collector if passed on.
I have converted one of mine to a short k version which looks fantastic and handles even better but im not suggesting that.
Ill wager mine will out shoot yours in accuracy and power terms, is more useful over FT knock downs and everyone loves the thing at my club, consistantly out shooting a HW45
Both mine run 480 to 490 fps and super smooth with potential for 1/2" gps at 10 yards

I agree that the LP53 is far more accurate than it is given credit for. I think it is my most accurate piston except for maybe my FWB65. But I find the LP53 more fun to shoot cause the FWB65 is more of a beast. I think part of this is excellent sights and trigger. Still hard for me to think that more piston pressure is not harder on a gun than less? But I just like to keep things stock and experience what those long ago felt. More of a collector than a shooter.

[clarky]

I agree that the LP53 is far more accurate than it is given credit for. I think it is my most accurate piston except for maybe my FWB65. But I find the LP53 more fun to shoot cause the FWB65 is more of a beast. I think part of this is excellent sights and trigger. Still hard for me to think that more piston pressure is not harder on a gun than less? But I just like to keep things stock and experience what those long ago felt. More of a collector than a shooter.

Thats a nice reply. I respect your view to keep it stock and shoot it the way it was designed to.

To answer your question on more piston strength not being harder on the gun....
The stock pair of springs require just as much force to cock but are not kept perfectly aligned (the inner mainspring acting as a poor inefficient guide rod, with greater vibration and potential for wear on the internals.
.....but regardless of which ever powerplant you use, these Walthers have robustness that will out live the user.
I have one from boyhood which may have had 10,000 to 20000 rounds through it and still going with no noticeable wear except for a few breech washers.
Keep an eye on those, they wear down to almost flush every 3 to 5,000 rounds and lose a fair bit of power.
Best pellet is R10

[clarky]

Been doing some extensive pellet testing and modding over the xmas with a pals 53 with new power pod.
I fitted his new power pod from Proteks and ran some pre and post fit tests for you. Also some further mods to the Power pod itself.
He gave me the pistol on leaving the pub the day before xmas eve giving me most of the holiday to fit and test but also to compare it with my own 53s mod.
First i put 20 shots through the gun over the chrono and a further 20 onto a target at 8 mtrs in my tandem garage range.....before dropping out the old springs.
Unmoded it managed 398 fps to 402 fps with R10 pistol.
I pulled the first shot on target by a full 1.5 inches because his trigger was slightly different to mine being with the adjustment ....a pre 60s model....completely flinching due to the unexpected weight of the 1st take
up. Ignoring the flier i settled into a 20mm group with 2 hand hold...pretty good.

I added the Power pod put 3 clearing shots through and re-tested.
This time i got 460 fps which is an interesting improvement.
This matches or slightly exceeds what the Airgun World test gave for the maximimum acheived (455 fps) but is nothing like the increase range realised in the article which was from a low of 360 fps (95fps increase)

Accuracy proved unaffected as i mirrored my first 20 mm group.....but i again ignored a flier that was not the guns fault.

The following morning i stripped out the quite tight nylon guide of the kit. This time turning up a black Delrin guide of a nice running fit. Re-fitted and put another few clearing shots through it.
This time i got 485 fps and 20mm groups and this now closer to the AGW article findings.

Next i removed the piston weight of the Power pod kit and replicated it in the same black Delrin i used for the guide. Re- fitted and tested....no piston weighting but guiding.
This time velocity had dropped to 452fps proving the weight addition to the little piston is quite an important part of the kit (35 fps) but i noticed a slight drop in recoil.
However accuracy had improved only very slightly producing 2 groups of 18mm and 19 mm.

It could be that im more use to the heavier recoil of the 53 ...or the adaption to slightly more or less recoil is not making that much difference but my choice would be to go with the weighting of the power pod kit.
Suprisingly my mate wanted the Delrin top hat left in for the greater accuracy potential and happy at 450 fps ish.

[harvey_s]

Why is that surprising?... Your own tests showed it was more accurate, had lower felt recoil and probably was less stressful on the gun as well.
450 FPS is more than adequate for a target pistol and the 33 FPS lost will not be noticeable at all, but the other effects were.
Power is not everything and sometimes less is more

Interesting results though and thanks for sharing them

BTW what differences were there, if any, on cocking effort?