Black powder beginners book

[Zero58]

Hello all as title what would be your heartfelt recommendation for a beginners guide for black powder and pyrodex
And what are your thoughts on pyrodex / triple se7en as a starter powder for me also if I went down this route would I need to modifie the revolver in any way as you all know I'm only learning and am willing to take and listen to any advise given thank you gentlemen for any reply posts also the revolver will be a •36 remminton NA Mod with target sights black powder thank you Frank
Ps my club does do BP but there is not a hard core really to seek advise from

[fatbob]

I have just started shooting muzzle loading revolvers . Didn't get a book just good advice from the chap I bought the gun off .

[tacfoley]

THE definitive book on BP is the Lyman Plack Powder Shooting handbook. Most big gun-stores in the UK have it - or get it online.

The subs are just fine for anybody, noobs or experts alike - just read the instructions like those you can find on the internet from them makers - Hodgdons. In general, Pyrodex loads are about 10% less BY WEIGHT than black powder, and Triple 7 about 15% BY WEIGHT. So if you are shooting your .36cal revolver with 20gr of FFFg and ball, then for Pyrodex Pistol - this is made specially for pistol - you would load 17-18gr of Pyrodex P. Triple 7 you'd load about 15-16gr by weight. However, it is all relative, and you have to do some work to find our what your gun likes best, and that gives you consistent results. No alteration needs be carried out to ANY revolver to enable it to shoot using the subs.

Again, some folks use over-powder wads - bought or made - and some, like me, don't. Some folks use a grease over the open end of the chamber, others, like me, use some kind of emulsified hand cream lkike E45.

IF subs are the way you are going, you might find reliable ignition comes from using hotter caps - it says so on on the tin. RWS are good like that.

Get yourself some transparent plastic phials and measure out your charges beforehand, or make up little cartridges like some of us do, using cigarette paper. Loading from a powder flask directly into the chambers is a NO-NO - this is why we use the little phials. When you have settled on a good and accurate charge, adjust the powder measure nozzle on your powder flask by cutting it/filing it to hold the right charge, and use THAT to fill the phials instead.

You don't note the make of revolver, only the calibre, so I can't help you with advice about ball diameter - unless, of course, you have a mould already. In general, any ball you load needs to leave a nice little ring of lead shaved off around the mouth of the chamber for a snug fit.

Lastly, for the moment, a couple of useful points -

1. WEAR EYE PROTECTION WHEN SHOOTING PERCUSSION/FLINTLOCK FIREARMS!! Those little bits of red-hot copper go everywhere and will sting like hell and maybe even blind you if you collect some in the eye.

2. Clean your gun as soon as possible after shooting, even to the extent of using a tap in the club washroom. Regardless of the rumours, the substitutes are ferociously corrosive if left for any period of time. Triple 7 can actually be washed away with cold water, so there is no excuse for not cleaning up as soon as you can.

Asking questions is how you'll find out, given the shortfall of like-minded shooters in your club, but there are many of us dark-siders here to help you out.

Best

tac

[Livefast123]

I use Triple 7 in my .44 Remington NMA and have had no issues in using it at all, I use Sellior and Belliot No 11 caps and have had no issues with non ignition etc. It is dead easy to wash off in the sink and will not stink your house out and lead to a divorce! Downsides are that it is more expensive than black powder and some deem it not authentic.

If you are not going to cast your own balls then it can get rather expensive, with Hornady balls running at around £18 a hundred. I use this company http://www.shellhousebulletcompany.co.uk/ who will post you a 100 of their balls for around £9, or find somebody in the club who casts their own.

Other than that, not really much I can add to Tac's post!

[Livefast123]

I use Triple 7 in my .44 Remington NMA and have had no issues in using it at all, I use Sellior and Belliot No 11 caps and have had no issues with non ignition etc. It is dead easy to wash off in the sink and will not stink your house out and lead to a divorce! Downsides are that it is more expensive than black powder and some deem it not authentic.

If you are not going to cast your own balls then it can get rather expensive, with Hornady balls running at around £18 a hundred. I use this company http://www.shellhousebulletcompany.co.uk/ who will post you a 100 of their balls for around £9, or find somebody in the club who casts their own.

Other than that, not really much I can add to Tac's post other than enjoy the dark side.

[tacfoley]

Apropos making your own ball.

Do it.

A Lee mould is about £25 and a lead melter and ladle is about £60. Sure, it sounds like an expense, but trust me, it won't be long before you have your money back. I figure that I can make about 48 .44cal per pound of lead. All my lead had come from our old house in Chester many moons ago, and I still have around 60-80 pounds left.

tac

[Zero58]

I have just started shooting muzzle loading revolvers . Didn't get a book just good advice from the chap I bought the gun off .

Thank you for your post think I will like this new part of shooting get the grey cells going Frank

[Zero58]

THE definitive book on BP is the Lyman Plack Powder Shooting handbook. Most big gun-stores in the UK have it - or get it online.

The subs are just fine for anybody, noobs or experts alike - just read the instructions like those you can find on the internet from them makers - Hodgdons. In general, Pyrodex loads are about 10% less BY WEIGHT than black powder, and Triple 7 about 15% BY WEIGHT. So if you are shooting your .36cal revolver with 20gr of FFFg and ball, then for Pyrodex Pistol - this is made specially for pistol - you would load 17-18gr of Pyrodex P. Triple 7 you'd load about 15-16gr by weight. However, it is all relative, and you have to do some work to find our what your gun likes best, and that gives you consistent results. No alteration needs be carried out to ANY revolver to enable it to shoot using the subs.

Again, some folks use over-powder wads - bought or made - and some, like me, don't. Some folks use a grease over the open end of the chamber, others, like me, use some kind of emulsified hand cream lkike E45.

IF subs are the way you are going, you might find reliable ignition comes from using hotter caps - it says so on on the tin. RWS are good like that.

Get yourself some transparent plastic phials and measure out your charges beforehand, or make up little cartridges like some of us do, using cigarette paper. Loading from a powder flask directly into the chambers is a NO-NO - this is why we use the little phials. When you have settled on a good and accurate charge, adjust the powder measure nozzle on your powder flask by cutting it/filing it to hold the right charge, and use THAT to fill the phials instead.

You don't note the make of revolver, only the calibre, so I can't help you with advice about ball diameter - unless, of course, you have a mould already. In general, any ball you load needs to leave a nice little ring of lead shaved off around the mouth of the chamber for a snug fit.

Lastly, for the moment, a couple of useful points -

1. WEAR EYE PROTECTION WHEN SHOOTING PERCUSSION/FLINTLOCK FIREARMS!! Those little bits of red-hot copper go everywhere and will sting like hell and maybe even blind you if you collect some in the eye.

2. Clean your gun as soon as possible after shooting, even to the extent of using a tap in the club washroom. Regardless of the rumours, the substitutes are ferociously corrosive if left for any period of time. Triple 7 can actually be washed away with cold water, so there is no excuse for not cleaning up as soon as you can.

Asking questions is how you'll find out, given the shortfall of like-minded shooters in your club, but there are many of us dark-siders here to help you out.

Best

tac

Well first I've been away for a few days just returned last night how wonderful to find these responses to my post what comprehensive and enlightened post a pleasure to read and under stand from a novices view thank you
First I will be getting your recommend BP book also I see its a 2nd edition so will be sending for it pronto yes you are right have decided to go with the BP subs and will take your advice on trying them all out until I'm
Happy and my gun is happy with the choice again taken your advise sent for H Kranks caterlog which looks to be a very comprehensive guide to what is required to buy ,as said GUN any advise please ? Was thinking
a Pietta ·36 New Mod Army target already fitted with sights or go straight in with a Uberti ·44 1858 New Army target it as a 8"barrel (does this make any difference) ?? Any help on this would be great thanks once again for your help I will be keeping your post as a reference as I blod on as there's a lot of valuable information contained with in thank you Frank

[Zero58]

Yes I will be making my own lead balls you have given me a lot to think about will get back to you on this subject at a later date I should imagine it will be another post subject of how I managed to set fire to something while making projectiles also your advise on safety as been taken on board thank you frank

[tacfoley]

At the level of skill [fun-level] an inch of barrel is a no-mind, but IF you ever wish to compete at any level in the BP sport please be advised that target sights on revolvers are not permitted, else everybody would be shooting Ruger Old Armys and beating the heck out of the rest of the world who shoots 'as-issued' revolvers.

Making your own ball is covered in great detail in the book, BTW. I've also covered it on this site about a zillion times. Like anything involving molten metal, it requires care, concentration, ventialtion and protection. I see that you have expressed an interest in the larger calibre .44 Remington New Model Army. It's a good choice, as it has a one-piece ie. solidly rigid, frame, and is generally more accurate than any of the Colt repros with their two-piece frame and wedge system.

However, you'll get a LOT more shooting out of a pound of any kind of propellant with one of those sweet-shooting .36cal. Say 25gr for the .44 versus 15gr for the .36...your choice [280 shots versus 466 shots].

More ball to the pound as well - a .44 weighs around 126gr [48 to the pound] and a .36 weighs about 80gr ]87 to the pound].

tac

PS - my name is not Frank

[Livefast123]

I have the Uberti 1858 Remington NMA with as issued notch and post sights and when I started I couldn't hit a barn door, however with practice I finished 4th out of 20 in our last club comp. It's just down to getting used to black powder guns and the way they shoot.......oh and seeing the target through the smoke.

I got the .44 as it was an ex club gun that was going at a reasonable price. I generally use around 22gr volume of Triple 7in the gun but as I rotate my usage of my target guns i'm hardly likely to run out soon.

The .44 makes a bigger hole than .36 for target shooting!

Good luck with casting your own balls, I wish I could do it but 2 young kids and not enough room make it an impossibility for me.

[enfield2band]

Hi Zero28,

This might be of interest, I put it on here about 3 years ago.

Hi,
I have just read some of the recommendations for bullet casting and some of them are misleading.
Use only pure lead for casting muzzleloading bullets. You do not need to use beeswax when you are doing this.
The only time you use beeswax when casting bullets is if you are casting bullets for centrefire firearms. Centrefire bullets have to be hard so tin is used in the melt to harden the lead. The tin seperates out and beeswax is used as a flux to pull the tin back into the alloy.

The lead in a muzzloader has to be soft so it can engage the rifling. If you are using a hollow based bullet, (Minnie)? the charge blows the skirt outwards so it grips the rifling. If you have the slightest amount of tin in the melt it will stop the skirt expanding and you will not get any accuracy.
Revolvers also need pure lead because the bullets is forced into the rifling to engage it.
A small amount of tin in a patched ball firearm is ok, it is the patch that grips the rifling, not the lead.

Lead flashing, airgun pellets, water pipe and gas pipe are all ok for casting muzzleloading bullets. I have done a drop test on balls cast with these and then measured them with a micrometer and they all come out the same.
Lead flashing and water pipe tend to be corroded/oxidised by the time we get it so a lot of scum comes off it. Don't worry, once this has been removed the lead will be clean.
New flashing has, I believe, zinc in it and is not suitable for casting bullets.
Wheel weights are no longer made from lead, I think these are zinc also, don't use them the metal is too hard.
If you have lead pipe with a joint soldered on remove it before melting the lead. Solder has a high tin content and will contaminate the melt.

Before you start casting bullets/balls wash the mould off with lighter fuel to remove the grease or oil. Then, "smoke the mould". To do this use a match to put a coating of soot on the inside of the mould. This stops the bullets coming out wrinkly and gives them a smooth finish. You only need to do this once and you can cast a few thousand bullets without having to "smoke it" again, although you can re-do the mould if you think you need to.
Don't use a candle, the soot is greasy and will spoil the finish of the bullets and defeats the object of "smoking the mould".

NEW ADDRESS FOR HSE RCA DOCUMENT:-
Health & Safety Executive,
Explosives Inspectorate,
1.2 Redgrave Court,
Merton Road,
Bootle,
Mersyside, L20 7HS.

Tel-0151 951 3775
Explosives.licensing@hse.gsi.gov.uk

I hope this has been helpful. Good luck with your casting.

[Zero58]

Hi Zero28,

This might be of interest, I put it on here about 3 years ago.

Hi,
I have just read some of the recommendations for bullet casting and some of them are misleading.
Use only pure lead for casting muzzleloading bullets. You do not need to use beeswax when you are doing this.
The only time you use beeswax when casting bullets is if you are casting bullets for centrefire firearms. Centrefire bullets have to be hard so tin is used in the melt to harden the lead. The tin seperates out and beeswax is used as a flux to pull the tin back into the alloy.

The lead in a muzzloader has to be soft so it can engage the rifling. If you are using a hollow based bullet, (Minnie)? the charge blows the skirt outwards so it grips the rifling. If you have the slightest amount of tin in the melt it will stop the skirt expanding and you will not get any accuracy.
Revolvers also need pure lead because the bullets is forced into the rifling to engage it.
A small amount of tin in a patched ball firearm is ok, it is the patch that grips the rifling, not the lead.

Lead flashing, airgun pellets, water pipe and gas pipe are all ok for casting muzzleloading bullets. I have done a drop test on balls cast with these and then measured them with a micrometer and they all come out the same.
Lead flashing and water pipe tend to be corroded/oxidised by the time we get it so a lot of scum comes off it. Don't worry, once this has been removed the lead will be clean.
New flashing has, I believe, zinc in it and is not suitable for casting bullets.
Wheel weights are no longer made from lead, I think these are zinc also, don't use them the metal is too hard.
If you have lead pipe with a joint soldered on remove it before melting the lead. Solder has a high tin content and will contaminate the melt.

Before you start casting bullets/balls wash the mould off with lighter fuel to remove the grease or oil. Then, "smoke the mould". To do this use a match to put a coating of soot on the inside of the mould. This stops the bullets coming out wrinkly and gives them a smooth finish. You only need to do this once and you can cast a few thousand bullets without having to "smoke it" again, although you can re-do the mould if you think you need to.
Don't use a candle, the soot is greasy and will spoil the finish of the bullets and defeats the object of "smoking the mould".

NEW ADDRESS FOR HSE RCA DOCUMENT:-
Health & Safety Executive,
Explosives Inspectorate,
1.2 Redgrave Court,
Merton Road,
Bootle,
Mersyside, L20 7HS.

Tel-0151 951 3775
Explosives.licensing@hse.gsi.gov.uk

I hope this has been helpful. Good luck with your casting.

Thank you I'm hungry for good reliable information such as yours and the other shootis on this BP forum so
refreshing to find dedicated enthusiasts willing to help the lowly novice such as me I will let you know how I'm
progressing at a later date once again thank you

[Zero58]

I have the Uberti 1858 Remington NMA with as issued notch and post sights and when I started I couldn't hit a barn door, however with practice I finished 4th out of 20 in our last club comp. It's just down to getting used to black powder guns and the way they shoot.......oh and seeing the target through the smoke.

I got the .44 as it was an ex club gun that was going at a reasonable price. I generally use around 22gr volume of Triple 7in the gun but as I rotate my usage of my target guns i'm hardly likely to run out soon.

The .44 makes a bigger hole than .36 for target shooting!

Good luck with casting your own balls, I wish I could do it but 2 young kids and not enough room make it an impossibility for me.

Yes you have hit the provable nail on the head "Barn Door" realistically I will be happy to hit the Barn any where !!! I shell worry about that on a date in the future which I will let all of you my mentors know about
As for casting yes I am a lucky person to have the space and indeed the time to persue another branch of
are glorious and rewarding past time.Thank you for reminding me of the fact that ·44 is bigger and that's always good in the cutting of target line you have given me something to think about
My best regards to your self and your family from Frank