.577 Parker Hale Musketoon.

[acmsarh]

I have a Lee 575 - 470 grain wadcutter minnie mould http://leeprecision.com/mold-575-470-m.html .
I can send you some to try if you want to.

[tim56]

Now that looks interesting!!! pm sent. Tim

[acmsarh]

Stuck some in the post for you.

[steve medlock]

Tim,

I use beeswax/tallow mix lube in no particular proportions. I melt it in a tobacco tin and then dip the bullets (from the fridge)in using long nosed pliers. After they've cooled, I push then through the sizing die which just leaves the lube in the cannelures.

What about the powder you're using? I used to use the cheap medium stuff but noticed that my guns went woomph whereas everyone else' was making a bang/crack. Huge improvement when I switched to ts2 and again switching to Swiss.

Logically, it would seem that the bullets aren't getting the spin they need and skirt not engaging the rifling. It is a .577 presumably and not a .58?

Steve.

[tim56]

Many Thanks acmsarh.
Hi Steve, Thank you for the bullets you sent. I usually use TS2 but stocks where getting low so i bought some Kranks med which is what i used
on Sat. Mucky old stuff but definitely going bang rather than woosh. Think i have some Swiss fine in the box so may give that a go.
Barrel is rifled so 577 and not 58 cal. Only thing i can think at the moment is with using cheeper powder if the rifling got clogged up and thus
the bullets couldn't expand into the rifling.?? When i tried to load a patched round ball it was REALLY TIGHT going down. When using patched ball
the bore is in effect cleaned by the patch going down so not a problem as all the crud is pushed down into the powder. With a loose fitting minnie
the grooves in the bore arnt cleaned by loading. How many shots do you get before cleaning is required.???
As said, theres a reason I'm struggling and you guys arnt, i just aint found it yet. Tim

[andrew375]

A few thoughts and suggestions as a result of some 20+ years shooting a PH P61 Artillary Carbine (AKA musketoon).

First of all the mould I use is the Lyman 575213PH which is the mould that Parker Hale had made for their rifles. I have cast and fired several thousand bullets I have not had one tumble. Neither have I had to resort to any kind of sizing die.

In all cases of tumbling I have observed it was because the bullets were not up setting into the rifling as a result of either not enough powder or the bullets being cast out of something other than pure lead. As you have tried upping the charge it looks like your problem is the latter.

Standard load I use is 65 grains, by volume, of fine; either Henry Kranks or FO Triangle. Only difference is that FO Triangle is slightly cleaner. With either powder I can get off a full card without having to brush out. Lube is 50/50 (by volume) Beeswax / Vaseline. On the official MLA target I can usually keep all my shots inside the "8" ring at 100 yards.

The rifling on the "musketoon" is not shallow at all but progressive depth. That is it is deeper at the breech end than the muzzle. A variation on the "squeeze bore" concept. Just as it was on the original. One interesting consequence of this was that the variation that Parker Hale supplied smooth-bore for going on shotgun certificate were smooth bore at the muzzle but rifling gradually appeared as the further down the barrel you went. Lyman made an oversize version of their minie mould that apparently worked well in these barrels.

[tim56]

Hi Andrew and Thank you for your reply. Im using old roofing flashing and fluxing with a commercial flux to cast my bullets.
The 575213 mold i have you can deform the skirt and easily scratch a groove into them with your finger nail so think we are
ok there. Steve sent me some of his bullets that work fine in his gun and these also tumbled in mine so although Iv never
heard of progressive depth rifling i will will do some homework on that point, my rifling is certainly very shallow at the muzzle
end.
Plan of action is;
a; Stick to TS2 powder till problem sorted.
b; Use a drop tube so as not to let powder get stuck on the crud from the previous shot.
c; Start using a bees wax / tallow mix lube instead of wonderlube.

Best Wishes for a Happy New Year, Tim

[tacfoley]

A few thoughts and suggestions as a result of some 20+ years shooting a PH P61 Artillary Carbine (AKA musketoon).

First of all the mould I use is the Lyman 575213PH which is the mould that Parker Hale had made for their rifles. I have cast and fired several thousand bullets I have not had one tumble. Neither have I had to resort to any kind of sizing die.

In all cases of tumbling I have observed it was because the bullets were not up setting into the rifling as a result of either not enough powder or the bullets being cast out of something other than pure lead. As you have tried upping the charge it looks like your problem is the latter.

Standard load I use is 65 grains, by volume, of fine; either Henry Kranks or FO Triangle. Only difference is that FO Triangle is slightly cleaner. With either powder I can get off a full card without having to brush out. Lube is 50/50 (by volume) Beeswax / Vaseline. On the official MLA target I can usually keep all my shots inside the "8" ring at 100 yards.

The rifling on the "musketoon" is not shallow at all but progressive depth. That is it is deeper at the breech end than the muzzle. A variation on the "squeeze bore" concept. Just as it was on the original. One interesting consequence of this was that the variation that Parker Hale supplied smooth-bore for going on shotgun certificate were smooth bore at the muzzle but rifling gradually appeared as the further down the barrel you went. Lyman made an oversize version of their minie mould that apparently worked well in these barrels.

All of this.

Except that lead flashing has progressively become somewhat less than lead, and more of a mixture of unknown pot metal sh!te over the years, and is extremely suspect as far a 99% purity is concerned. If you have a round ball mould of ca. 454'' available to use, use it to cast a single ball. If it IS lead of the quality that it should be, it SHOULD weigh 126gr - anything less than that, and it ain't.

tac

[tim56]

Hi tac, lead supply is about 25 years old ish. A mate of mine worked in roofing and stashed away all
his off cuts for years then when he moved i got the lot for beer money. Sadly supplies are now starting
to run low. Have molds for .451 .457 and .562. Will weigh em all and see if i can work it out. Tim

Additional..Just weighed a .451" round ball made with the same lead and it weighs 139 grns. The .457"
weighs in at 143 grns and the .562" weighs 263 grns.