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Thread: Pre ww 2 Webly mk I air pistol in mint condition I need more info

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Amsterdam
    Posts
    6

    Pre ww 2 Webly mk I air pistol in mint condition I need more info

    Hello I am Richard Zeedijk from holland I am new here on the forum I found pictures here on the forum of a old webly air pistol Mk I senior and its a nice pisol and it looks very old I have exatly the same one but I think the one I have is in a more mint condition no rust and a wooden grip and it looks like new, this is the first time that I found somthing about this gun on the internet, in holland I did not find any info on the pistol I like to now more about the pistol anybody no what the history and the value of the gun is and how old it is.
    It is in the original box and its has a metal box brand name wasp with lead bbs in it and some parts and the part list the Mark 1 senior Model serial nr is 46810 m, here are the link to the pictures thank you greetings from Richard.
    http://imageshack.us/a/img72/6055/sdc10049n.jpg
    http://imageshack.us/a/img820/8504/sdc10054fn.jpg
    http://imageshack.us/a/img27/196/sdc10055jo.jpg
    http://imageshack.us/a/img14/1435/sdc10053p.jpg
    http://imageshack.us/a/img585/8085/sdc10051x.jpg
    http://imageshack.us/a/img72/6055/sdc10049n.jpg
    http://imageshack.us/a/img543/9007/sdc10054bq.jpg
    http://imageshack.us/a/img59/2518/sdc10051j.jpg
    http://imageshack.us/a/img233/6593/sdc10050f.jpg

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Worthing
    Posts
    3,325
    Hello Richard,

    You have a lovely example of a pre-war Webley 'Straight Grip' Mk1 and most UK collectors have probably owned a Webley air pistol in their time, but it is not widely known that the first Webley air pistol design dates from 1910. Up until this time Webley had been mainly concerned in manufacturing firearms for both the civil and military markets. In 1910 W.J. Whiting, Chief Designer in Webley’s Revolver and Pistol Department applied for a patent to protect a new type of air pistol. The design incorporated an air cylinder in line with the barrel, the mechanism being cocked by lifting the front of this cylinder away from the barrel until the sear engaged, when it was returned to its original position. Unfortunately, this resulted in the in a pistol with an overall length of more than 15”,which made it very barrel heavy and difficult to shoot with accuracy and comfort. The other factor which may have influenced the decision not to proceed with the project was that the need for a Firearms Certificate had not yet been introduced so live firing pistols were still readily available. The pistol looked remarkably similar to the company’s .22 semi- automatic pistols and would have been constructed to the same high standard. Unfortunately , only a single prototype of the pistol was ever made which is on display at the Birmingham Industrial Museum.

    Following the introduction of restrictive legislation regarding the private ownership of firearms in 1920, Webley looked once again at the possibility of producing a commercially acceptable air pistol. In 1923 two senior members of the Weaman Street factory, Douglas Johnstone and John Fearn, working in conjunction with an independent advisor Frank Clarke, provisionally patented the now famous design for a compact “overlever “ air pistol we all recognise today.
    The first examples of the design designated the Mk1 appeared in 1924 and were an immediate success. The barrel on these early pistols was retained by a single spring clip which was soon replaced with a double clip to provide better barrel retention. This too was soon replaced with the now familiar sliding latch which was a far more elegant solution. Early “Springclip” Webley air pistols however are extremely rare and fetch very high prices whenever they appear for sale.

    The so called “Straight Grip” Mk 1 was made between 1924 and 1935 during which some 50,000 pistols were produced in either .177 or .22 calibre. The pistol was of all steel construction with a rifled barrel and included an trigger adjustment screw together with a handy little safety catch fitted to the side of the frame. The rear sight was only adjustable in the vertical plane but was perfectly adequate for the intended purpose.
    These pistols are quite accurate at ranges between 6 -10 yards but are extremely hard to cock until you learn the knack. Current prices vary from between £100 -£200 depending on condition with a significant premium to be added if the pistol is offered together with its original cardboard box.

    Your pistol's late Ser No (46810) would indicate that it would probably have been made towards the end of the 'Straight Gip' Mk1 production in 1935 when the 'Slant Grip' models were introduced.

    Hope this provides a bit of background to the history and development of your pistol.

    Regards

    Brian

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    1,031
    Quote Originally Posted by Abasmajor View Post
    Hello Richard,

    You have a lovely example of a pre-war Webley 'Straight Grip' Mk1 and most UK collectors have probably owned a Webley air pistol in their time, but it is not widely known that the first Webley air pistol design dates from 1910. Up until this time Webley had been mainly concerned in manufacturing firearms for both the civil and military markets. In 1910 W.J. Whiting, Chief Designer in Webley’s Revolver and Pistol Department applied for a patent to protect a new type of air pistol. The design incorporated an air cylinder in line with the barrel, the mechanism being cocked by lifting the front of this cylinder away from the barrel until the sear engaged, when it was returned to its original position. Unfortunately, this resulted in the in a pistol with an overall length of more than 15”,which made it very barrel heavy and difficult to shoot with accuracy and comfort. The other factor which may have influenced the decision not to proceed with the project was that the need for a Firearms Certificate had not yet been introduced so live firing pistols were still readily available. The pistol looked remarkably similar to the company’s .22 semi- automatic pistols and would have been constructed to the same high standard. Unfortunately , only a single prototype of the pistol was ever made which is on display at the Birmingham Industrial Museum.

    Following the introduction of restrictive legislation regarding the private ownership of firearms in 1920, Webley looked once again at the possibility of producing a commercially acceptable air pistol. In 1923 two senior members of the Weaman Street factory, Douglas Johnstone and John Fearn, working in conjunction with an independent advisor Frank Clarke, provisionally patented the now famous design for a compact “overlever “ air pistol we all recognise today.
    The first examples of the design designated the Mk1 appeared in 1924 and were an immediate success. The barrel on these early pistols was retained by a single spring clip which was soon replaced with a double clip to provide better barrel retention. This too was soon replaced with the now familiar sliding latch which was a far more elegant solution. Early “Springclip” Webley air pistols however are extremely rare and fetch very high prices whenever they appear for sale.

    The so called “Straight Grip” Mk 1 was made between 1924 and 1935 during which some 50,000 pistols were produced in either .177 or .22 calibre. The pistol was of all steel construction with a rifled barrel and included an trigger adjustment screw together with a handy little safety catch fitted to the side of the frame. The rear sight was only adjustable in the vertical plane but was perfectly adequate for the intended purpose.
    These pistols are quite accurate at ranges between 6 -10 yards but are extremely hard to cock until you learn the knack. Current prices vary from between £100 -£200 depending on condition with a significant premium to be added if the pistol is offered together with its original cardboard box.

    Your pistol's late Ser No (46810) would indicate that it would probably have been made towards the end of the 'Straight Gip' Mk1 production in 1935 when the 'Slant Grip' models were introduced.

    Hope this provides a bit of background to the history and development of your pistol.

    Regards

    Brian
    Hi Richard welcome to the forum, Brian has given you a very good insight into the Webley Mk1 pistol. l would say your pistol is worth between £250 - £300 with the box & pellets.

  4. #4
    edbear2 Guest
    Hi Richard, The pellet tin is a nice example of what looks to be a screen printed (as opposed to stick on paper label) early Wasp tin. If the tin has the ICI logo it is post 1929, so they are perfect in period with your gun. The tin and contents are probably worth £20-30+ alone on a good day

    ATB, Ed

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    TELFORD
    Posts
    2,101
    Richard,
    Is there any reason why there is no picture of the right hand side of your pistol..?. It is quite common for the side that sits in the box to show signs of distressed bluing, caused by the bleach used in the manufacture of the cardboard.
    Still a very nice example though.
    Pete.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Amsterdam
    Posts
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by flatrajectory View Post
    Richard,
    Is there any reason why there is no picture of the right hand side of your pistol..?. It is quite common for the side that sits in the box to show signs of distressed bluing, caused by the bleach used in the manufacture of the cardboard.
    Still a very nice example though.
    Pete.
    Hi Pete now there is no reason I just made some pictures I can also make one of that side if you like?
    that side looks great to.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Amsterdam
    Posts
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by Abasmajor View Post
    Hello Richard,

    You have a lovely example of a pre-war Webley 'Straight Grip' Mk1 and most UK collectors have probably owned a Webley air pistol in their time, but it is not widely known that the first Webley air pistol design dates from 1910. Up until this time Webley had been mainly concerned in manufacturing firearms for both the civil and military markets. In 1910 W.J. Whiting, Chief Designer in Webley’s Revolver and Pistol Department applied for a patent to protect a new type of air pistol. The design incorporated an air cylinder in line with the barrel, the mechanism being cocked by lifting the front of this cylinder away from the barrel until the sear engaged, when it was returned to its original position. Unfortunately, this resulted in the in a pistol with an overall length of more than 15”,which made it very barrel heavy and difficult to shoot with accuracy and comfort. The other factor which may have influenced the decision not to proceed with the project was that the need for a Firearms Certificate had not yet been introduced so live firing pistols were still readily available. The pistol looked remarkably similar to the company’s .22 semi- automatic pistols and would have been constructed to the same high standard. Unfortunately , only a single prototype of the pistol was ever made which is on display at the Birmingham Industrial Museum.

    Following the introduction of restrictive legislation regarding the private ownership of firearms in 1920, Webley looked once again at the possibility of producing a commercially acceptable air pistol. In 1923 two senior members of the Weaman Street factory, Douglas Johnstone and John Fearn, working in conjunction with an independent advisor Frank Clarke, provisionally patented the now famous design for a compact “overlever “ air pistol we all recognise today.
    The first examples of the design designated the Mk1 appeared in 1924 and were an immediate success. The barrel on these early pistols was retained by a single spring clip which was soon replaced with a double clip to provide better barrel retention. This too was soon replaced with the now familiar sliding latch which was a far more elegant solution. Early “Springclip” Webley air pistols however are extremely rare and fetch very high prices whenever they appear for sale.

    The so called “Straight Grip” Mk 1 was made between 1924 and 1935 during which some 50,000 pistols were produced in either .177 or .22 calibre. The pistol was of all steel construction with a rifled barrel and included an trigger adjustment screw together with a handy little safety catch fitted to the side of the frame. The rear sight was only adjustable in the vertical plane but was perfectly adequate for the intended purpose.
    These pistols are quite accurate at ranges between 6 -10 yards but are extremely hard to cock until you learn the knack. Current prices vary from between £100 -£200 depending on condition with a significant premium to be added if the pistol is offered together with its original cardboard box.

    Your pistol's late Ser No (46810) would indicate that it would probably have been made towards the end of the 'Straight Gip' Mk1 production in 1935 when the 'Slant Grip' models were introduced.

    Hope this provides a bit of background to the history and development of your pistol.

    Regards

    Brian
    TThank you very much Brian that more than I hoped for what a good history lesson about the pistool.
    regards Richard.

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