POI Low

[Tallyho]

New to pistols and rifles. I find my Brocock Aimx GP single shot is spot on from the bench when zeroing. In the field the poi is lower than the poa. I realise the pistol is static on firing when bench rested so will not drop the poi. What am I doing wrong?

Something I considered. I want to get the trigger checked by someone who knows more than me as I do think it is without "feel" going through the two stages. It's not at all like the feel my MPR or EV2 triggers. But that might just be me as a novice?

I pondered that if the trigger is not set correctly it could lower the muzzle end minutely as I squeeze it. But if it turns out that's not likely, and is just a poor excuse, what should I look to improve upon to overcome the problem.

[peteswright]

New to pistols and rifles. I find my Brocock Aimx GP single shot is spot on from the bench when zeroing. In the field the poi is lower than the poa. I realise the pistol is static on firing when bench rested so will not drop the poi. What am I doing wrong?

Something I considered. I want to get the trigger checked by someone who knows more than me as I do think it is without "feel" going through the two stages. It's not at all like the feel my MPR or EV2 triggers. But that might just be me as a novice?

I pondered that if the trigger is not set correctly it could lower the muzzle end minutely as I squeeze it. But if it turns out that's not likely, and is just a poor excuse, what should I look to improve upon to overcome the problem.

This could be that the muzzle is dropping imperceptibly as you squeeze the trigger, or there is a change in pressure of certain muscles in the hand forming the grip. Dry Fire at a mark on a wall and keep focus on the front sight rear sight relationship as you squeeze the trigger. Make sure theres no movement. Its been said of shooting that its simple but its not easy! ATB. Pete.

[Benelli B76]

I think Pete is right.When showing people how to shoot full bore pistols I found that the most common fault was "flinching".The loud noise that is anticipated by the shooter makes them flinch the muzzle downwards just as they pull the trigger.You are probably doing this very imperceptably.

Baz

People who do not try tomatoes in a fruit salad do not think outside the box.Shredded carrots and pineapple make a great salad mix.

[peteswright]

Further to my earlier reply. Can I suggest, while shooting freehand (one or two handed) you move in close to the target, say 10ft. Try to concentrate on not moving anything while firing at a blank sheet of paper (or back of a normal target). Try to hit dead center at 10ft then get a group in same hole. Then move further back and keep up the practice. ATB. Pete.

[Turnup]

I would not expect bench resting to give the same poi as freehand, nor would I expect freehand single handed to give the same poi as freehand double handed. Recoil reaction is not the same when holding differently.

You might be flinching it low, and as advised the exercises already described will help you to identify and avoid that, but don't get hung up on the bench rest results. Adjust your sights so that poi is where you want it using your chosen poa. Use the exercises, and, as your group size reduces you may find that you need to tweak the sights - concentrate on small groups not on poi - with a small group a simple adjustment of your sight will put them where you want them - with a large group no amount of sight twiddling will achieve the result you are looking for.

[Tallyho]

Thank you all so much for this invaluable input, and for the recommendations which may help me improve. I'll get to it!

Dave

[Airsporter1st]

Maybe a stupid question, but are you sure you are shooting at the same distance and angle in the field? Sometimes more difficult to judge than the fixed known distance at the range. Also, if you are shooting downhill at the range and/or uphill in the field, your POI would drop.

[Tallyho]

Hi Paul,

The zeroing range is level, the distances to targets similar in the field to range distances, (but the field targets are on a slight downward slope away from the shooter). In the field one or two targets are at the same level as my feet due to the slope, otherwise they are pretty level perched in trees. But I take your point that the elevation of a target could require an adjustment to poa. But I seem to have a low poi across the board.

Will try to follow the advice given so far when I'm shooting Saturday.

Dave

[Airsporter1st]

Hi Paul,

The zeroing range is level, the distances to targets similar in the field to range distances, (but the field targets are on a slight downward slope away from the shooter). In the field one or two targets are at the same level as my feet due to the slope, otherwise they are pretty level perched in trees. But I take your point that the elevation of a target could require an adjustment to poa. But I seem to have a low poi across the board.

Will try to follow the advice given so far when I'm shooting Saturday.

Dave

Is there any significant temperature difference? Are you shooting earlier or later in the field? Just thinking aloud really about what else might afffect POI.

[Benelli B76]

He's just flinching, otherwise we would all have the same problem with temperature with precharge, which I personally do not.May get it with C02 on extreme days.

Baz

[peteswright]

He's just flinching, otherwise we would all have the same problem with temperature with precharge, which I personally do not.May get it with C02 on extreme days.

Baz

I reckon its a flinch type of problem too. It can though, be a slight drop of the entire arm as the shot is fired, not just the wrist. I sometimes do this if my cadence (timing of sequence) is out. Theres a lot going on when aiming and firing a pistol or rifle. Loss of concentration on every element of the shot will result in an error. I know! ATB. Pete.

[Airsporter1st]

I reckon its a flinch type of problem too. It can though, be a slight drop of the entire arm as the shot is fired, not just the wrist. I sometimes do this if my cadence (timing of sequence) is out. Theres a lot going on when aiming and firing a pistol or rifle. Loss of concentration on every element of the shot will result in an error. I know! ATB. Pete.

But why would that happen consistently in the field and not on the range?

[peteswright]

But why would that happen consistently in the field and not on the range?

He does say he's bench resting on the range which would help steady the shot, but in the field I assume he's freehand which requires more independant control. ATB. Pete.

[Gerard]

I'll add my voice to those already suggesting that rested sighting in for a pistol if it's intended to be shot without a rest is something of a waste of time and pellets. Pistols don't shoot at all the same between the two, or as stated, between single and two-handed.

But another factor I don't see mentioned might be to do with lighting. The sights can appear quite different to the shooter depending on light intensity and direction. For instance I find that on my home 10 metre practice range which is naturally lit, my point of impact changes depending on time of day if it's cloudless. With cloud cover there's no change. But if there's bright reflected sunlight (trap is South of me so sun can never get directly onto the paper) from the right (late afternoon) I'll tend to shoot slightly to the right. If shooting in the morning and it's sunny, I'll shoot a little to the left. Seems this is because of the way the light comes through the sights, though I have a hard time figuring out exactly why when my shooting position is artificially lit with no outdoor light at all. But so it goes. I've read many accounts from those using outdoor ranges where the firing line is in direct sunlight that it can make a HUGE difference in point of impact depending on angle and intensity of sunlight. So zeroing your sights on the day is rather important, as unless your lighting situation is absolutely consistent every time you shoot there is no one-adjustment-hits-all setup with open sights.

[Tallyho]

Is there any significant temperature difference? Are you shooting earlier or later in the field? Just thinking aloud really about what else might afffect POI.

I discounted temp as I take it straight from the zeroing range (just to check) to the pistol range which is adjacent, so no temp difference. It's something I'm doing. Either flinching or as suggested arm movement due to not concentrating 100%. Need lots more practice, but thanks to you guys at least I now understand why it is occurring.