CNTSA (Cumbria & Northumberland Target Shooting Association) Winter Leagues Results?

[dprees]

Round 9 available.

[dprees]

Re-entered for the Summer league, but delivery of the results in a reasonable time has not improved. Would love to recommend this league to others, but sadly, I cannot.

[BigDuncs]

Re-entered for the Summer league, but delivery of the results in a reasonable time has not improved. Would love to recommend this league to others, but sadly, I cannot.

Similarly, I've given up with them too. Great league and they do a lot. But I want to know my scores/ranking within a reasonable time.

[dprees]

Six and a half weeks since Round 4 had to be shot; three and a half weeks since Round 3 results were published. Perhaps that have got too big. It seems the work in sorting out issues with one comp has impacted all competitors in the league. Given the flexibility of the internet, I don't see why all results have to be published (late!) simultaneously; as each comp results are available, put them up!

[Romah]

Gents, maybe a little insight to to logistics of the CNTSA postal competition may be in order, as this is an 'air' section I'll confine my comments to 6yd AP, 10m AP and 10m AR.
First of all let me make it clear that, like all competitions, scoring is done by volunteers, in there own time without any sort of reimbursement, as is the final compilation and publishing of scores.
Personally I score the 10m AR competition and have 100 shooters 'on the books', meaning that I have to score 400 cards/fortnight.... the guys that do the same job for the other disciplines have similar, if not more, numbers to deal with.
The competition rules state that cards have to be with the scorer no later than ten days after the 'shoot by' date, unfortunately most clubs/individuals leave it to the last minute before sending the cards off.
This inevitivly means that I get a bunch of mail on a Wednesday, I'm normally tied up with other things and don't get to sort an score the cards until the following weekend (scorers have a life outside of shooting!).
So far so good...... however, there are the unavoidable problems in shooters everyday lives. People get sick, have injuries, have problems getting range time and request extensions for the round. Packages going AWAL in the post are a pain and really hold things up when re-shoot is required.
Under such circumstances we do our best to accommodate the competitors, we're here to help wherever possible.
Each individual scorer has the same problems and the whole set of disciplines have to be compiled and published en-block, presenting results ad hoc would be a nightmare!
I realise we live in an 'instant' world but does it really matter that results aren't published until we're reasonably sure they're correct?
Question: Would the people twisting about the current setup be prepared to volunteer their services/ideas for improvement?
Sorry it's so long but it boils my pi$$ that people give no thought to the work that goes on behind the scenes in ANY sort of competition

[dprees]

Thank you for taking the time to alert us to the issues. I am aware that the scorers are volunteers, and I appreciate their unpaid labour. I also agree that it is a great deal of work, and there are times when matters don't run as smoothly as everyone would wish.

But: we competitors get no information as to why there are delays, or what we can do to ease them in the future. Yours is the first communication concerning the issues involved; at the least, perhaps a comment on the News section of the website now and then could at least provide some indication of how things are going, and when results are due?

As to the question concerning acceptable delays: our club has finished and sent off all 10 rounds, and now find ourselves waiting interminably for the results to appear. There is little point in participating if results do not appear within a reasonable time, I fear.

I gather a decision was made to stay with posting targets, not reults, to you. Given that the problems you describe would be greatly alleviated if that decision were changed, perhaps it should be reopened?

[Romah]

But: we competitors get no information as to why there are delays, or what we can do to ease them in the future. Yours is the first communication concerning the issues involved; at the least, perhaps a comment on the News section of the website now and then could at least provide some indication of how things are going, and when results are due?

As to the question concerning acceptable delays: our club has finished and sent off all 10 rounds, and now find ourselves waiting interminably for the results to appear. There is little point in participating if results do not appear within a reasonable time, I fear.

I gather a decision was made to stay with posting targets, not reults, to you. Given that the problems you describe would be greatly alleviated if that decision were changed, perhaps it should be reopened?

Has anyone in your Club approached the CNTSA directly about the delays? A better way forward, I'm sure, than kicking it about on the bbs, I'd be very surprised if Bob visits this particular arena as his personal shooting leans more toward full bore disciplines.

It's always good to get cards in plenty of time but that in it's self can be a headache, storage wise, and will never speed things up unless such a line was adopted by all Clubs/shooters concerned, a vain hope methinks.

I suspect 'local scoring' will be adopted some time in the not to distant future, postal costs are becoming silly and the introduction of such a system is currently being trialled by the NSRA. Courses are being run all over the country to give people the chance to become 'accredited' by the NSRA, this will facilitate and influence future decisions. The current format is not 'written in stone'.
I'm not totally convinced that such a system would "greatly alleviate" the problems, other than the cards that disappear into the RM black hole, more a case of them being passed on to the local administrators....... hold ups would still be inevitable.

These views are my own and are not intended to reflect or second guess any future CNTSA policy decisions, I'm not trying to belittle any concerns people might have about the organisation.

As mentioned earlier, we're always ready to help but problems need to be flagged up to the right person before any action can be taken.

[himself]

Has anyone in your Club approached the CNTSA directly about the delays? A better way forward, I'm sure, than kicking it about on the bbs, I'd be very surprised if Bob visits this particular arena as his personal shooting leans more toward full bore disciplines.

It's always good to get cards in plenty of time but that in it's self can be a headache, storage wise, and will never speed things up unless such a line was adopted by all Clubs/shooters concerned, a vain hope methinks.

I suspect 'local scoring' will be adopted some time in the not to distant future, postal costs are becoming silly and the introduction of such a system is currently being trialled by the NSRA. Courses are being run all over the country to give people the chance to become 'accredited' by the NSRA, this will facilitate and influence future decisions. The current format is not 'written in stone'.
I'm not totally convinced that such a system would "greatly alleviate" the problems, other than the cards that disappear into the RM black hole, more a case of them being passed on to the local administrators....... hold ups would still be inevitable.

These views are my own and are not intended to reflect or second guess any future CNTSA policy decisions, I'm not trying to belittle any concerns people might have about the organisation.

As mentioned earlier, we're always ready to help but problems need to be flagged up to the right person before any action can be taken.

Hi All.
Perhaps a look at how the MIDLAND POSTALS are done should be looked at.
In house marking by a nominated marker. Random call in on cards for periodic checks, scores published within day's of submission .A little trust is needed with fellow shooters and postal comps. It is the nature of a competitor to know how he /she is doing in any competition, you can see that a S to S comps as soon as the scores for a detail are up on the board, your likely to get trampled on in the rush see how shooters are doing. Time for change shooters are seemingly un - happy with the present method.
John F.

[Romah]

Hi All.
Perhaps a look at how the MIDLAND POSTALS are done should be looked at.
In house marking by a nominated marker. Random call in on cards for periodic checks, scores published within day's of submission .A little trust is needed with fellow shooters and postal comps. It is the nature of a competitor to know how he /she is doing in any competition, you can see that a S to S comps as soon as the scores for a detail are up on the board, your likely to get trampled on in the rush see how shooters are doing. Time for change shooters are seemingly un - happy with the present method.
John F.

John, I'm not defending the system merely pointing out some of the reasons for delays in CNTSA results being posted.

As mentioned above, NSRA trial currently in progress and going well according to feedback, I've no doubt this will be the way forward with 'certified' scorers to ensure consistency.

[himself]

John, I'm not defending the system merely pointing out some of the reasons for delays in CNTSA results being posted.

As mentioned above, NSRA trial currently in progress and going well according to feedback, I've no doubt this will be the way forward with 'certified' scorers to ensure consistency.

Hi Robb .
Neither am I getting at Markers for various leagues, they are certainly doing a much needed job at this time.
We are in the computer age, we have at most clubs people that are more than up to the job of marking cards.
All I am saying that the midland league has a fair amount of folk shooting ,and john and his team produce scores in a very short turn around time.
As for late cards, this should no happen ,if a date it set for the return of shot cards and a club/individual has not shot and entered cards then they should miss the cut. Provisions are already in place in most leagues for extended time for that unexpected occurrence. John F

[BigDuncs]

As mentioned above, NSRA trial currently in progress and going well according to feedback, I've no doubt this will be the way forward with 'certified' scorers to ensure consistency.

I don't think this is the best way forward. Last year, I scored my own cards in what I consider to be a consistent manner. Not necessarily the correct way, but consistent. There was a 3 point difference between the two different leagues (one up over 2 points and one down nearly 1 point due, I presume, to the different scoring standards of the scores. At least if one scorer scores the whole match, any variation should be consistent and therefore fair on all the competitors.

Good luck to all, whatever is chosen.