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Thread: New to the forum. Help needed!

  1. #1
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    New to the forum. Help needed!

    Good afternoon gentlemen and ladies. Am contemplating a return to air guns after 40 odd years. Last time I purchased an air gun was when t'was possible as a 14 years old to wander into the gun shop spin a plausible attempt at being 17 and walk out with a BSA Airsporter which would send a
    .22 pellet through my leather school bag and 25 pages into my maths book........ (That was until at 15 I was able to purchase any shotgun(s) I fancied and unlimited numbers of cartridges with a scrappy bit of paper-my 'shotgun certificate'! (Not suggesting that the rules of the time were good but they were good days!)).
    Would like to try air pistol shooting again so looking for some advice. Like fishing, I believe shooting to be a form of meditation and want to be able to practice at home on a 'garden range' (without scaring the neighbors.....) with the ultimate aim of joining a club and perhaps being able to shoot competitive targets, once regained some proficiency.
    Where do I start? Am currently 'resting' from employment so finances limited (although time rich!) but have been offered the gift of a Christmas present to approx £300. I want to learn to shoot again and perhaps to eventually shoot at club level. A bit of research on the web and these forums suggests that Weihrauch 75 or Gamo Compact might be a good start. Threads reviewed also suggest many members have an enthusiasm for Weihrauch 45. In terms of learning air pistol skills with a view to perhaps more formal target shooting in the future would HW45 provide good training or would I be better going straight to single stroke pneumatic 'semi' target pistols such as the Gamo or HW75? Alternatively does anyone have any advice as to a reliable second hand target pistol in that sort of price bracket? (I don't have the resources to purchase a pistol and all the diving gear that seems to be required by modern pcp's).
    Any advice will be very much appreciated.

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    I was in a similar position to you a few months ago and now shoot pistol targets most days. Where do we start, well compact is a good start as it has a proper grip that makes you take a proper drop wrist hold - within budget new, HW45 is a springer and has some recoil - some love them some do not. HW 40 & 75 ssp nice triggers 40 within budget, FAS 604 good SSP within budget secondhand. My favorite would be a FWB 65 recoiless springer - this was used in world champs up till late 80's within budget s/h I love mine.
    Get your eye in and join us in the MPL league postal comp. for the next season starting in a few months time MPL = muscle power league all powered by muscels not co2 or compressed gas.

    Hope this starts you thinking

    George

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    If you are intending to do 'target' work - informal and then formal I would avoid HW45 as it's more of a high powered plinker.

    FAS AP 604 - get an adjustable grip version that has been recently resealed

    FWB 65 or 80 as both are built like tanks and dominated 10m match shooting on the continent for decades

    Hammerli Master or Single - CO2 powered and easier to shoot for extended periods as cocking is easier.

    Gamo compact - good starter but you may not like the use of plastics - being from a Mk1 Airsporter era

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    harvey_s is offline Lost love child of David Niven and Victoria Beckham
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    Good advice from Mark especially re. HW45 which IMO (as a ex-owner) carries an over-inflated reputation based on a perception of high-power and high-quality...don't get me wrong, its by no means a poor gun - its just that's theres so much better readily available that get overlooked just because they don't produce 5.5ft/lbs.
    Personally in your price range I'd suggest a Tau-7 would more than fit the bill as well as those above...

  5. #5
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    If you can stand it's good looks, a 2nd hand 'Izzy' could be another option within budget...

    Picture: http://www.pyramydair.com/images/IZH..._pistol_lg.jpg

  6. #6
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    Don't underestimate the problem of noise.
    The HW45 is one of the finest and most accurate spring pistols available, but it goes off with a heck of a crack.
    The Gamo Compact and HW75 are quieter but still may cause annoyance if shooting in the garden.

    If you do want to practice in the garden you will need a silencer, which drastically reduces your choice of gun.
    I've got a Crosman 2240, retro fitted with a silencer and it's as near silent as you'll get. With a 177 barrel and trigger tune it's accurate enough for proper target shooting ( I won an HFT comp at the weekend with mine).
    The Brocock AimX pistol is similar, near silent when fitted with an HW moderator and as accurate as anything. You'd probably want one in 177 and if you shop around 2nd hand you could >just< scrape in under the £300 mark for the pistol and a stirrup pump to fill it.

  7. #7
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    Thanks guys. Will do some more research based on the advice although looks like the HW45 (not target oriented) and the Compact (you are right Mark I do have historical antibodies to 'plastic'!) are probably out!
    Dyslexics of the world-Untie.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by thirdwheel View Post
    I was in a similar position to you a few months ago and now shoot pistol targets most days. Where do we start, well compact is a good start as it has a proper grip that makes you take a proper drop wrist hold - within budget new, HW45 is a springer and has some recoil - some love them some do not. HW 40 & 75 ssp nice triggers 40 within budget, FAS 604 good SSP within budget secondhand. My favorite would be a FWB 65 recoiless springer - this was used in world champs up till late 80's within budget s/h I love mine.
    Get your eye in and join us in the MPL league postal comp. for the next season starting in a few months time MPL = muscle power league all powered by muscels not co2 or compressed gas.

    Hope this starts you thinking

    George
    Many thanks George. Indeed much thinking! Out of interest. Did you decide on FWB on opportunistic basis ie it was available or did you try out some of the other pistols you recommend first?
    Also with regard to MPLA league, may I ask how this works? I assume you need to be a member of a club to participate ( dependent on eventually purchasing a muscle powered piece of kit of course!).
    Many thanks for your help. Simon
    Dyslexics of the world-Untie.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark D View Post
    If you are intending to do 'target' work - informal and then formal I would avoid HW45 as it's more of a high powered plinker.

    FAS AP 604 - get an adjustable grip version that has been recently resealed

    FWB 65 or 80 as both are built like tanks and dominated 10m match shooting on the continent for decades

    Hammerli Master or Single - CO2 powered and easier to shoot for extended periods as cocking is easier.

    Gamo compact - good starter but you may not like the use of plastics - being from a Mk1 Airsporter era
    Hi Mark. Many thanks for the post. Having done some research today I very much like the look of the FAS 604 and the FWB's. Saw a (1972!) Hammerli 454 Master on the web for £370!!
    Looked nice however a bit out of the prices bracket. A general point you may be able to help with. A couple of FWB's out there as well as the Hammerli. They all seem to have been manufactured in the 70's tho. Is it really OK to be purchasing kit of this age to use on a regular basis rather than to put into a 'collectors' cabinet?
    Many thanks for you your help.
    Simon
    Dyslexics of the world-Untie.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biker_Bob View Post
    Don't underestimate the problem of noise.
    The HW45 is one of the finest and most accurate spring pistols available, but it goes off with a heck of a crack.
    The Gamo Compact and HW75 are quieter but still may cause annoyance if shooting in the garden.

    If you do want to practice in the garden you will need a silencer, which drastically reduces your choice of gun.
    I've got a Crosman 2240, retro fitted with a silencer and it's as near silent as you'll get. With a 177 barrel and trigger tune it's accurate enough for proper target shooting ( I won an HFT comp at the weekend with mine).
    The Brocock AimX pistol is similar, near silent when fitted with an HW moderator and as accurate as anything. You'd probably want one in 177 and if you shop around 2nd hand you could >just< scrape in under the £300 mark for the pistol and a stirrup pump to fill it.
    Thanks for the advice. Just to clarify. Layout of the house is such that I can just about manage to create a 10 meter range indoors and for the 'less cold' days over winter could shoot out of the house into the garden easily over ten meters, so perhaps sound less of an issue. Curious with regard to your observations over a Brocock and mention of a stirrup pump. Had a friend who very many years ago had some sort of Brocock revolver which he fairly rapidly sold because it took so long to pump up cartridges relative to the time to shoot them that it was utterly frustrating. Having looked at the web the Brocock seems good for approx 30/40 shots in .177. Do you have an estimate of how long it would take to recharge using a pump? The psi seems pretty high!!
    Again many thanks for your help.
    Simon
    Dyslexics of the world-Untie.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by harvey_s View Post
    Good advice from Mark especially re. HW45 which IMO (as a ex-owner) carries an over-inflated reputation based on a perception of high-power and high-quality...don't get me wrong, its by no means a poor gun - its just that's theres so much better readily available that get overlooked just because they don't produce 5.5ft/lbs.
    Personally in your price range I'd suggest a Tau-7 would more than fit the bill as well as those above...
    Many thanks for the advice. Have been doing some research today and I have to say that the Tau-7 looks interesting. However there do not appear to be many out there..... Did have a look at the manufacturers web site tho and at euro for pound a sport or junior look affordable new! Do you have any experience/know anyone who has ordered direct? Couldn't find a UK importer.
    Many thanks again for your kind advice so far.
    Simon
    Dyslexics of the world-Untie.

  12. #12
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    harvey_s is offline Lost love child of David Niven and Victoria Beckham
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    Quote Originally Posted by SimonR View Post
    Many thanks for the advice. Have been doing some research today and I have to say that the Tau-7 looks interesting. However there do not appear to be many out there..... Did have a look at the manufacturers web site tho and at euro for pound a sport or junior look affordable new! Do you have any experience/know anyone who has ordered direct? Couldn't find a UK importer.
    Many thanks again for your kind advice so far.
    Simon
    I was lucky enough to find my own locally.
    Those I have seen on the BBS do not hang around normally - that said there is one in the sales section at the moment which has been there for a while - you could perhaps contact the seller to see if there is any movement to be had on the price to bring it within your budget.
    You could also try someone like Bob at Checkmate Guns who may be able to locate one for you.
    I see he's also currently advertising a FWB Mod. 65, a FAS AP604 (nice starter guns) and an Aeron Brno B96 5 shot which are rather fun.
    Last edited by harvey_s; 16-11-2013 at 12:01 AM. Reason: spelling

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by SimonR View Post
    Thanks for the advice. Just to clarify. Layout of the house is such that I can just about manage to create a 10 meter range indoors and for the 'less cold' days over winter could shoot out of the house into the garden easily over ten meters, so perhaps sound less of an issue. Curious with regard to your observations over a Brocock and mention of a stirrup pump. Had a friend who very many years ago had some sort of Brocock revolver which he fairly rapidly sold because it took so long to pump up cartridges relative to the time to shoot them that it was utterly frustrating. Having looked at the web the Brocock seems good for approx 30/40 shots in .177. Do you have an estimate of how long it would take to recharge using a pump? The psi seems pretty high!!
    Again many thanks for your help.
    Simon
    That Brocock revolver was and air cartridge gun, now illegal to own. Each cartridge gave one shot and needed pumping indivually.
    The new Brococks are PCP so need filling once every 40 shots or so. The fill pressure is around 3000psi and that's why you need a PCP pump or a diver's tank to refill them. I can't be bothered with tanks so I use a pump to fill my 3 PCP rifles and one PCP pistol. It works out about one pump per shot on average. So if it takes you 10 minutes to shoot your 40 pellets (bearing in mind that all you have to do is pull back a little bolt and pop in a pellet), it might then take 1 minute to refil the gun.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by SimonR View Post
    Hi Mark. Many thanks for the post. Having done some research today I very much like the look of the FAS 604 and the FWB's. Saw a (1972!) Hammerli 454 Master on the web for £370!!
    Looked nice however a bit out of the prices bracket. A general point you may be able to help with. A couple of FWB's out there as well as the Hammerli. They all seem to have been manufactured in the 70's tho. Is it really OK to be purchasing kit of this age to use on a regular basis rather than to put into a 'collectors' cabinet?
    Many thanks for you your help.
    Simon
    Hi Simon

    All of those pistols were built to last several lifetimes,provided they have been looked after and had the seals changed when required. There are seal kits available and a number of guys on this forum that will replace them.
    That Master is a beaut - but I would say that as it belongs to me!

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark D View Post
    Hi Simon

    All of those pistols were built to last several lifetimes,provided they have been looked after and had the seals changed when required. There are seal kits available and a number of guys on this forum that will replace them.
    That Master is a beaut - but I would say that as it belongs to me!
    Chuckle chuckle! Now regarding that budget of mine..... Don't suppose I could persuade you that you only really NEED three hundred squids for it??! Hmmmm!
    Simon
    Ps. Good to hear that there is engineering still that was built to last. My grandfather built GWR locomotives.......
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