CP88, makarov or what?

[ashf9999]

?..would not expect it to be an early model but who knows.

What's the serial number?

[Aimstraight]

What's the serial number?

TR HT 0098X, where x is secret

I'm guessing TR = Tempest and HT = Hatsan.

[clarky]

Some of the previous threads have somehow mixed up qoutes (#39 and 41 incorrectly attributes to me); no worries.

From other feedback on the forum, the Turkish Tempest seems to be well liked. I am now getting to use mine after a number of quality issues. It was bought new mid year from a shop which I think has a reasonable turn around of stock - would not expect it to be an early model but who knows.

1) Barrel tight, the smallest pellets I can find (Crossman Domed and RWS Geco) all need to be put through a Sizerpac to get them in the barrel, most other pellets will not go in properly.
2) Excessive play between the barrel and alloy casting (compared to other Turkish Tempest and British Tempest) had contributed to failure of two breach seals.
3) The seal for the Turkish has a smaller diameter and occasionally fell out of its housing. I finally fitted a seal from a British Tempest (larger diameter); custom fitted to the housing.
4) Also had to fit packing behind the seal to make a better fit on the barrel. The sloppy fit of the barrel in the alloy casting necessitated a seal that would ensure a firm seal to barrel (to prevent wobble). It's now working fine.

It was only the fact that my British Tempest (bought later) worked perfectly that encouraged me to get the Turkish working properly.

Pretty sure you must have a real bad one here. The fit of the barrel into he housing is as perfect as the Brummy version I had. No failed breech seals as yet and def not tight bore.
There is a good test on Youtube with chrony figures etc...pretty much replicating my own findings.

[Rickenbacker]

TR HT 0098X, where x is secret

I'm guessing TR = Tempest and HT = Hatsan.

Have these 'new' ones got serials then? If yours isn't early, why'd it have a 3 figure serial? Sounds more like a batch number to me

[Aimstraight]

Have these 'new' ones got serials then? If yours isn't early, why'd it have a 3 figure serial? Sounds more like a batch number to me

This Turkish one has what I assume is a S/N on the underside of the handle...but maybe it is a batch or even a model number (I have not seen another Turkish one).

[ashf9999]

Hmmm, mine is TR HT 1210 (month & year I believe) 000049, so it looks to be a different format....? It's a Centennial; I wonder if they adopted a different format when they started to sell them in the standard boxes...

[clarky]

Hmmm, mine is TR HT 1210 (month & year I believe) 000049, so it looks to be a different format....? It's a Centennial; I wonder if they adopted a different format when they started to sell them in the standard boxes...

I believe that settles the matter. The Centennials have a slightly different finish and being part of the first production run off that I mentioned.
The later pistols were finished differently and teething issues apparently sorted. (According to American airgunner)
The gun we have is solid. Produces almost 480fps and has improved solid pins in place of the horrid Brummy roll pins. It was agreed by all of us that the matt finish is more appealing than the Brummy gloss finish but I accept others may not agree.
It does look however that late Brummy Tempests had already gone over to wider plastic trigger blades before the demise.....thus no improvement there to be fair.

[Aimstraight]

......The Centennials have a slightly different finish and being part of the first production run off that I mentioned.
The later pistols were finished differently and teething issues apparently sorted. (According to American airgunner).......

But mine is not a Centennial version. The problem with mine might be all down to the barrel on this individual unit. Maybe it 'slipped through' on the tolerance front. The bore is tight, and it might be that the external diameter is small. This could explain why there is excessive play between the barrel and the alloy casting (8 thou as opposed to 2 to 3 thou on other Webleys). It seems unlikely that there would be variability in the dimensions of the casting as that would affect many guns, whereas machining of the individual barrel might be more variable.

[clarky]

But mine is not a Centennial version. The problem with mine might be all down to the barrel on this individual unit. Maybe it 'slipped through' on the tolerance front. The bore is tight, and it might be that the external diameter is small. This could explain why there is excessive play between the barrel and the alloy casting (8 thou as opposed to 2 to 3 thou on other Webleys). It seems unlikely that there would be variability in the dimensions of the casting as that would affect many guns, whereas machining of the individual barrel might be more variable.

That's a shame. Its also a shame that such a report could put off loads from such purchases.
I can only report on my own experience which reflects those of American Airgunner and other forums that this Turkish Tempest is better than the Brummy version. I guess it will need 12 months or so to filter down if yours is just a rogue...or proof of quality issues.
All I can say is the one we have is a decidedly better gun than the Brum version....as much as it hurts me to say it.

[Aimstraight]

That's a shame. Its also a shame that such a report could put off loads from such purchases....

Yes, it is a shame as it was my first springer and indeed my first Webley and caused me time and trouble to try to remedy.
When the accuracy went worse with time and practice (instead of better), I was perplexed, until an experienced Webley owner noticed 1) the relatively loose compression provided by the breach seal, 2) excessive play in the barrel/casting. I measured the latter with feeler gauges versus three other Webleys; they did not have excessive play. The worsening seal and excessive play caused havock with the accuracy.

The careful fitment of a new breach seal was a workaround (little I can do about the excessive play), but hopefully will keep it working accurately for a good lenght of time. Lets hope this was an isolated case; experience from other users seems to indicate such (I would be interested to know what problems early units exhibited). If I were confident that a replacement would be provided with no quibble/no hassle I would go that way, but past experience with other products has shown that repairs/replacements can often be a waste of the consumers time.

[clarky]

Yes, it is a shame as it was my first springer and indeed my first Webley and caused me time and trouble to try to remedy.
When the accuracy went worse with time and practice (instead of better), I was perplexed, until an experienced Webley owner noticed 1) the relatively loose compression provided by the breach seal, 2) excessive play in the barrel/casting. I measured the latter with feeler gauges versus three other Webleys; they did not have excessive play. The worsening seal and excessive play caused havock with the accuracy.

The careful fitment of a new breach seal was a workaround (little I can do about the excessive play), but hopefully will keep it working accurately for a good lenght of time. Lets hope this was an isolated case; experience from other users seems to indicate such (I would be interested to know what problems early units exhibited). If I were confident that a replacement would be provided with no quibble/no hassle I would go that way, but past experience with other products has shown that repairs/replacements can often be a waste of the consumers time.

Must admit im at a bit of a loss to understand how your quality error occurred.
The reports of a problem from the 1st production run (which included some of the Centennial models) centred around the barrel.
The main body casting was off the same tooling, so the error cannot be there. It has to be the barrel where the Turkish company manufactures its own barrels. American Airgunner reporting a rectified tight bore issue.
However, your casting fit seems to be the problem in your case.
Maybe we just got lucky with ours and the gun is to be avoided.

My main drive with this post was that shooters not get so hung up on defunct English stuff getting remade elsewhere in the world, as frustrating as this sometimes can be.
....But If the company went tilt, it was allowed to. They had cut staff right back toward the end and began concentrating on youth guns....one or 2 other bad decisions and no development of the Webley pistols in over 20 years.
Fair play to the Turks for taking the gun on and making a few changes.
Only time will tell if it is for the better but they shouldn't be knocked for taking it on.
Webley sold off the company.....nobody else!

[Aimstraight]

Quite like the look of the steel Makarov. However, the YouTube video of the new version by 2lbsTrigrPull, reveals a bit of a dogs breakfast the way the handle flexes because the internals have been cut away. Don't quite see the point of a moving slide that is not blowback operated (semi-auto). However, I'm sure it is very nice to handle...and maybe one to try out in future.

[flatrajectory]

Quite like the look of the steel Makarov. However, the YouTube video of the new version by 2lbsTrigrPull, reveals a bit of a dogs breakfast the way the handle flexes because the internals have been cut away. Don't quite see the point of a moving slide that is not blowback operated (semi-auto). However, I'm sure it is very nice to handle...and maybe one to try out in future.

The grip frame on the gen.5 is cut away to accomodate the co2 bulb because the gen 5 has a much slimmer grip due to the real version having a single stack magazine.
My gen 5 does not flex at all ,unless I squeeze the grip as if I were trying to strangle the life from it. Perhaps those who have complained about flex grip the pistol too tightly. This is not the correct way to grip a pistol if you want it to shoot accurately.
I love my gen 5.
Pete.

[Aimstraight]

The grip frame on the gen.5 is cut away to accomodate the co2 bulb because the gen 5 has a much slimmer grip due to the real version having a single stack magazine.
My gen 5 does not flex at all ,unless I squeeze the grip as if I were trying to strangle the life from it. Perhaps those who have complained about flex grip the pistol too tightly. This is not the correct way to grip a pistol if you want it to shoot accurately.
I love my gen 5.
Pete.

Point taken. Also the flexing was with the magazine removed, which it not normal use.

[flatrajectory]

Point taken. Also the flexing was with the magazine removed, which it not normal use.

Quite correct.
A lot of 'issues' with Makarovs are perceived issues rather than actual problems. For instance, I own an air rifle that has a visible kink in the barrel ( from it being bent then straightened), yet it shoots as accurately as it ever did before the incident.

Pete.