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Thread: post war Anschutz 22lr

  1. #1
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    post war Anschutz 22lr

    Hi every one. I was given a 22lr calibure Anschutz rifle with a missing extractor. I tried to find a part from the manufacturer but their drawings didn't go back that far.. So i made one and it works fine.. So why the thread ? well im looking for more info.

    The rifle has a 6 figure serial no but no date code. It was made at the ULM factory so I know it's post war. Also having the strap mount on the underside of the barrel forward of the stock tells me it's much earlier than the ones shown dating back to the late fifties. Sadly has no scope rail and im reluctant to drill anyholes to mount one in case it's got some value. As an iron sight rifle it's very accurate (I have replaced the damaged front sight with a new brass ball type) I can hit a leaf at 75 yards so it's not half bad at all.. I know the old factory was bombed and they rebuilt a new factory at Ulm after 1946 so hopefully the rifle was made using new machines and that accounts for the high build quality.
    Perhaps someone can tell me more.. the extractor and front sight have been made to high standard and function as they should. the sling is mounted using the same vee grouve as the front sight. I do not have the origional strap either but its an excellent bolt acion rifle that warrants a scope if its not sacriligeous to fit one and destroy it's value...
    Colin

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpmwasp View Post
    Also having the strap mount on the underside of the barrel forward of the stock tells me it's much earlier than the ones shown dating back to the late fifties. Sadly has no scope rail and im reluctant to drill anyholes to mount one in case it's got some value. As an iron sight rifle it's very accurate (I have replaced the damaged front sight with a new brass ball type) I can hit a leaf at 75 yards so it's not half bad at all.. I know the old factory was bombed and they rebuilt a new factory at Ulm after 1946 so hopefully the rifle was made using new machines and that accounts for the high build quality.
    Perhaps someone can tell me more.. the extractor and front sight have been made to high standard and function as they should. the sling is mounted using the same vee grouve as the front sight. I do not have the origional strap either but its an excellent bolt acion rifle that warrants a scope if its not sacriligeous to fit one and destroy it's value...
    Colin
    What's a strap mount? You also mention a sling in your post - are they one and the same thing?

    J G Anschutz has ALWAYS produced rifles of the highest accuracy standards, not just post-war with new machinery.

    Having been made in the Ulm factory your rifle should have the proof mark of a half-antler with two numbers - they are usually the last two numbers of the proof date. Other times there is a date code using letters instead. Please tell us what it is and we can tell you the age of your little rifle.

    tac
    Last edited by tacfoley; 30-12-2013 at 01:28 PM.

  3. #3
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    date stamp

    You are right the strap / sling mounting is the same thing, cross cut under the barrel probably done on the same machine that cut the grouve for the front sight..
    the stamp is not a antler but an eagle with spread wings.!! with the head facing left and the wing tips up as high as the head of the eagle. and it looks like IV but they are stamped almost on top of each other ( the letters)
    The same sign is on the barrel and the breech next to each other.. im sure it's IV the top and bottom of the I are over hanging to the left too far for it to be an E and the top of the V is in the middle of the I
    I would attach a pic but I do not know how to... does this help?
    ahh just spotted it again on the bolt.. eagle and IV serial number is 2286## last two are numbers obscured for my privacy.
    Colin

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    date stamp on anschutz

    It's definitely IV stamped under a left facing eagle with it's wings held up high. So what year is IV and how the heck do i add an image on here..Colin

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpmwasp View Post
    It's definitely IV stamped under a left facing eagle with it's wings held up high. So what year is IV and how the heck do i add an image on here..Colin
    All I can tell you is that your rifle was made before 1958, when the current system of the Ulm Bechussampt 'stag-horn' and date digits or letters was adopted.

    Sorry.

    tac

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    Quote Originally Posted by cpmwasp View Post
    It's definitely IV stamped under a left facing eagle with it's wings held up high. So what year is IV and how the heck do i add an image on here..Colin
    Sounds like eagle over N. Standard German nitro proof mark. I presume the eagle is facing your left, not its own left(?)

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    anschutz date

    HI thanks for the input.. The eagle is looking to My left
    but the stamp underneath no matter haw hard i look at it i can't see a N as the right side is like a V and the left side like a N but the bottom right side of the n is lower than the left..
    that's why i said it looked like a I V with the V stamped a bit lower.. there are three in all... barrel, breech, and bolt they all look exactly the same size and shape just that on the barrel the stamp must have been leaning forward as the lower edge of the wing is fainter. But the letters underneath are a separate stamp and done a little harder. If it's an N then the right leg of the N is leaning out to the right.. and the left vertical stroke has a horizontal capping top and bottom but not on the right. That's a sloppy N for me but that might be how that did it...

    Anyway.. so it's before 1958, and does the eagle and the N or IV make it collectible or valuable enough to stop me from drilling holes to attach a mounting rail for a scope...It's bloody accurate.. and i would love to use it with a half decent scope.
    Colin

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    date and value

    Yep I think you are right... I found a picture of the pre 58 stamp and the N is very similar to mine. the later N with an antler as well is a very different shape N.
    So it's pre 58, starting the serial number with 22 and the rifle has no safety but the hammer action can be released, and re-cocked easily as it is a ball shape designed to be pulled back to re-arm without actioning the bolt. slighter later pre 58 models seem to have a safety on the right side and a different shape to the bolt..well rounded and nothing to grip to re-cock..
    I like this old girl, maybe i will just attach a plate to the wood and mount a scope on that without touching the metal..but if the stock is original im not doing it a service am I if I do that...

    arrrgh....decisions decisions...

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandy22 View Post
    Sounds like eagle over N. Standard German nitro proof mark. I presume the eagle is facing your left, not its own left(?)
    Yes, it is the bundesadler - the post-WW2 era/1945-48 proof stamp. Between those dates and the adoption of the commonly-seen symbols, there was no location identifier. Both Ulm and Oberndorf - both on the Neckar River - use the same half-antler.

    There is no 'hammer' on a bolt-action rifle - I think you mean the firing-pin/striker assembly. Your little rifle is a very basic model, commonly called a knabenbuchse, or 'boy's rifle' - a first firearm for a young budding sportsman.

    I think that this may be something like your rifle - http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b1...w_22_side_.jpg I suspect that it might even be Model 1307, if the bolt handle is fitted with a knob and not flat. They were made, unchanged, from around 1933 to around 1955. The sling swivels on the barrel are typical of European guns - rifled and smooth-bored, to this day.

    It is not valuable, but is of interest to an old fart like me that likes older guns. In the USA such a little rifle is worth around $200-250, but here in UK I have no idea. Whatever, I do not recommend that you do anything to it that would reduce its value - such as the scope-mounting modifications that you suggest. Personally, I would leave it as it is and keep it for what it is, not for what it is not. It is decidedly NOT a long-range sporting rifle of the scoped variety - if Anschutz had intended for it to have a scope, then they would have made it so.

    My $0.02.

    tac

    PS - sometime it might be a plan to get ahold of a definitive list of gun-related descriptive terminology, so that we are all talking about the same bits and pieces when we are describing guns and parts thereof.

  10. #10
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    post war Anschutz 22lr

    OK Thanks for that info, so yes it has a cocking lever with a ball on the end and vue the poor quality of the stock compared to the nice finish of the one in your photo.. But the lever is defiantly different from the photo.
    ermm little boys rifle eh!! well it's already had a new front sight and an ejector I made for it so I guess it's not that valuable anymore..but it certainly shoots accurately with the iron sights.
    I don't use it much but it's a good rifle to have at hand for the odd fox or anything too big for my air rifles..and I like the safety feature of being able to de-cock it rather than a safety that might be in the wrong position..it.s just a quick pull to re-arm it and shoot. I would happily accept 150€ for it though as i could buy another 0.22 Rebel and blueprint that like i did the 0.177 rebel..
    I will keep it as is for now as you suggest as im not likely to use it outside my 75 meter plot of land or a local rifle club..
    Thanks again for the information..

    oh and a list of parts would be a good idea, perhaps a gunsmith might like to post one...
    Just wish i could attach some photos..
    Colin

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpmwasp View Post
    OK Thanks for that info, so yes it has a cocking lever with a ball on the end and vue the poor quality of the stock compared to the nice finish of the one in your photo.. But the lever is defiantly different from the photo.
    ermm little boys rifle eh!! well it's already had a new front sight and an ejector I made for it so I guess it's not that valuable anymore..but it certainly shoots accurately with the iron sights.
    I don't use it much but it's a good rifle to have at hand for the odd fox or anything too big for my air rifles..and I like the safety feature of being able to de-cock it rather than a safety that might be in the wrong position..it.s just a quick pull to re-arm it and shoot. I would happily accept 150€ for it though as i could buy another 0.22 Rebel and blueprint that like i did the 0.177 rebel..
    I will keep it as is for now as you suggest as im not likely to use it outside my 75 meter plot of land or a local rifle club..
    Thanks again for the information..

    oh and a list of parts would be a good idea, perhaps a gunsmith might like to post one...
    Just wish i could attach some photos..
    Colin
    The so-called 'butter-knife' bolt version in my photo was only one example of the more usual ball-ended bolt. I'm afraid that as far as any spare parts are concerned it is a matter of finding another one for spare parts - Anschutz has no parts for many guns made in the 1960's. let alone from their initial post-war production. In the USA there are two people who might have things like firing pin springs, but as for anything else, you are on your own. My own Model 1409, made in 1967, now has no parts of any kind from Anschutz.

    Don't be upset about it being called a 'boys rifle', it is not a disparaging title in Germany where gun laws were always very liberal before Hitler came to power. These little guns are MADE for youngsters to learn to shoot, hence their smaller than adult dimensions. I have a BSA Model 1/2 made in 1910 for a boy who died in 1917, and I'm not ashamed of it. You can see it at the bottom of the page here -

    http://www.rifleman.org.uk/BSA_Model_1.html

    To post details of a list of parts, in any case, is of purley academic interest, since there are no parts, apart from those I mentioned above, to list. Just looked - Numrich only have the bolt body for the model three after yours.....

    HYN.

    tac

  12. #12
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    anshultz 22 post war model

    Yes thanks again for the additional info.. I made a new extractor, and it works fine. It was not hard to do except for the very tight tolerances to be coppied from the bolt grouve. there is a slight lead in the grouve that tightens as the bolt is rotated. <that was the hardest to measure. the rest was just measure and make a few though oversize so i could file / polish it back to shape..
    The front U shaped part of the extractor I made from a build up of sucessive welds and a lot of filing.. Weld is very hard and as the steel i chose was also a very high strenght It should last for ever...the bolt action is firm and positive with no binding and the spent casing ejecta like an auto when i pull back the bolt.. ok for the title boys gun... im still a boy at 61 years of age.. ha ha
    Colin

  13. #13
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    Vintage anschultz

    Great info and some real intriguing detective work.

    Any chance of showing some photos of the said beauty?

  14. #14
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    Cool photo of the rifle

    Hi sorry for the long absence.. Yes i would like to post a few pictures but don't know how on here..as i cant see the paprclip !!!
    You can allways email me on gmail.com and send me your email and i will send you some pictures of the rifle..

    I have used it a few times since and it's been a great little performer, though the bolt / firing pin needs a clean as it missfired twice on the last shoot. The ejector is still working fine although I would like to re-model it slightly as i under cut the small radius ( over filed) and the 22 case has a slight signature bulge to it when fired..but thats an easy fix for me to re weld the radius and re file it to the correct shape.. again i would like to show the pictures of that before and afterwards to show how easily parts can be made with a little knowledge in engineering..
    Colin cpmwasp at gmail dot com

  15. #15
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    latest mods to the old girl

    Can anyone tell me how to upload photos on here??
    I have made a mk2 extractor and its just fine, no more markings on the cases and easier to load and extracts super smoothly. I have decided to make a new stock with a built in mount for a scope, so I can keep the original one intact, not that it has any real value..but rather than drill holes in wood and cut bits out i would rather design a new pistol grip stock in aluminium and have a few other special features. like a new safety catch design, folding stock or built in ammo store. But there is little point talking about it if i can't upload any photos.....just where is that dammed paperclip to attach a file?????

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