Phoenix Mark 11

[darryl]

With regards to accuracy are you referring to plinking accuracy? I've seen posts where some have used the Phoenix for HFT and seemed satisfied with the results they got. Here, the standard talk about accuracy seems to be the center-to-center measurement of a 5-shot group at some particular distance, typically 50 yards. A sub-MOA group at that distance (less than half an inch) is considered pretty darn good. See this link: http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537...T%2C+in+my+97K.. As in the groups of that link, how does your Phoenix perform? Sad to say I never got to "stretch" my first Phoenix. It' was a .22. I do have a standard for accuracy by which to judge the coming Phoenix (due here on Tuesday). I once owned a single-shot Brocock Grand Prix in .22. It shot one-hole groups at 30 yards that measured less than 0.30 inches. I will use that as an accuracy standard to measure the Phoenix against. Or is that unrealistic? Even if I don't plan to shoot the gun in competitions, I have the expectation that the BSA barrel should be able to group like the Brocock pistol.

Then again, as I said, maybe just sell it outright as new in the box, never shot.

Anyone got any group photos to share?
darryl

[madcarlos]

Hi buddy as for myself accuracy is for me only something i aim at and i hit the intended target but to be honest i only do what i call target practice or what could be called as plinking, It seems to be lately over the last couple of years that i found myself buying , selling and swapping quite a few guns going from spring to pcp then back and forth a couple of times but have limited myself to 4 pcp guns of which i struggle to part with any of them and to be quite honest i dont need 4 of them but cant make up my mind which one to get rid of first, The other reason is there have been no rush to sell as i dont think i will loose much money off them if i sold now or 5 years time. But getting back to the subject for me about accuracy i suppose is myself hitting the intended target at a set distance then going further and further and improving at a longer distance, I mainly shoot 177 cal and i am shooting between 40 and 50 yards and would expect the pellets holes to touch each other or at least be withing the size of a 5p piece and would also expect to hit coke tin size cans at 80 yards, I could only compare my phoenix to my air ranger as both are 177 cal and yes the ranger is what i call very accurate gun and again great at long distances but if i was to have a challenge to shoot a target at say 50 yards out of the two guns i think i would pick the mk2 phoenix or i would feel more confident at hitting the target with th phoenix, Over the last couple years i have had the s200, s410, 510sl,hw100, air wolf and ranger also the ds mk3 and about 4 huntsman classics plus quite a few rapid 7s and quite a few more and still have the mk2 rapid mk2 vermi along with the ranger and of course the phoenix but out of them all for me the daystate mk3 was most probs getting the better results and next i would put the phoenix near enough as good as it i was also quite impressed with the s510 but all have been 177 cal. For me it exceeds my expectations for what i would expect

I shoot push pins at 40 yards with the phoenix if yours is the same you will be very happy with it .

[darryl]

If your reply doesn't put the proper light on the Phoenix, I don't know what will. It is certainly a gratifying read about your gun,and the company it has kept in your collection. I have some hard thinking to do. I may keep the new Phoenix, or not. But your description carries a nice bit of weight, and I thank you for the thoughtful reply.
Shoot straight!
darryl

[madcarlos]

If your reply doesn't put the proper light on the Phoenix, I don't know what will. It is certainly a gratifying read about your gun,and the company it has kept in your collection. I have some hard thinking to do. I may keep the new Phoenix, or not. But your description carries a nice bit of weight, and I thank you for the thoughtful reply.
Shoot straight!
darryl

No porbs Darryl. I can't really praise this gun enough. There don't seem to be many about on the second hand market and when they do they get snapped up pretty quick. Anyway atb on what you decide and happy shooting ok buddy. Guy

[darryl]

It seems I can't sell the gun. I've posted it on three local boards, and not a nibble, not a question, not a comment. So...it's a keeper!!!!! I've been shooting the gun and it's been a good sample up until today. Shots going everywhere. Loose stock? Nope. Loose barrel? Nope. Loose scope? Nope. Bad scope? (switch to another true and tested scope and test the gun with it) Nope. What could it be? It's the silencer. It was a bit loose. I don't know how tight it's supposed to be, but I snugged it up, and found that being more snugged made the groups open up (and I'd grown used to the gun making tiny 5-shot holes when I shot it in my basement). Where I'm at now is here, looking for advice on this matter. I placed a large-enough o-ring on the base part of the silencer, which is glued to the barrel, I assume. Doing so allows me to turn the silencer while keeping it snugly screwed in place (the o-ring compresses or relaxes from the pressure I exert or take of of it) as I try to find a position that allows for a consistent POI instead of the drifting POI I'm seeing now. I've taken a break from trying to sort this out, but I would like to hear from this forum on possible solutions. Just to make the point, without the silencer in place the gun if legend-accurate, but loud as anything.

Imagine it. That is the only problem I'm having with the gun. At close range I get 70 good shots (no POI shift), and 80 shots if I play the shift. I'll have to study on how to adjust the 2nd stage trigger ( a bit too heavy for my taste, but not so bad as to mess up accuracy). Even the LOP is not bothersome. No issues except for that silencer. Maybe I need to drill it out to prevent a pellet-clipping situation? Is the barrel actually threaded so I can replace the silencer with another style?
what do you think?
darryl

[darryl]

I did not realize the baffle could be easily removed, until I found out it could be. I drilled it out a bit to prevent clipping, and that cured the problem. Apparently shooting a double-load caused a bit of an issue inside. All better now. The fascination builds for this peculiar little gun.
darryl

[darryl]

hey guys, follow this link for a recent update of my new PH Bird of Fire:http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537.../Expand+Thread
darryl

[buttloaves]

Do you think these guns perform better in .22 or .177, i see more .22s than .177s

[darryl]

I'd say it depends on the needs of the shooter. I think the .177 Phoenix would be great for 30 yards inward for hunting and plinking. Going out farther than 30 yards is where the skill of wind doping would determine the a .177's fate. The .22 will be less moved by the wind, and it will have a mortar-round trajectory at longer distances, though it will impart more energy on the target than the smaller .177. So, both present their own unique challenges to a shooter, let alone a hunter (where shot placement is a huge consideration for a kill-shot). Also, the .22 is a bit easier to manage when loading the magazine. It's been said many times that a .177 is less efficient in it's air usage than the .22. I've also found that heavier pellets are more air-efficient than lighter one, regardless of the caliber.

A guess; more .22s. Your observation about seeing more .22s tells a story. For a non-fac gun here in the states where power if almost the final word, the .22 is more popular. But I do fine with a <6fpe Crosman 1701P: 60 good shots from a 47cc reservoir and accurate to 30 yards easily with enough power to stop small pest animals with one shot.

Darryl
BTW BL, do you know if the barrel is threaded on the end, and if the carbon fiber silencer is glued on?

[KeithW]

Do you think these guns perform better in .22 or .177, i see more .22s than .177s

It depends how you define "perform". I have one of each and the only problems I've had have been of the user-error variety.
My guess - and this applies to all airguns (in the UK, sub-12ft.lb.) - is that a lot of first time shooters buy .22 because of the supposed "stopping power", as applied to hunting. I'd also guess that when the Phoenix first come out there were more .22's sold because this was the prevailing attitude at the time and so the legacy of .22 rifles in the s/h market today reflects buying patterns and attitudes of quite a few years ago.

However as more airgun shooters have turned to FT and HFT they have realised that we should be looking at the potential for accurate shot placement. The smaller calibre suffers less pellet drop over sub-12 ft.lbs, distances and is therefore more forgiving of the shooter's ranging errors. Both calibres of Phoenix are as accurate as each other at known distances.

If your criteria is shot count, you get more shots per fill from .22 than from .177. (and more from rifles than carbine-length guns)

If I was buying one of these with target shooting in mind I'd go for .177. If I was hunting rabbits or pigeons (which I do, actually) I'd still use .177. However if I was shooting rats (which I don't) I'd probably use .22

The rifles have the same internals so should "perform" equally well.

[KeithW]

BTW BL, do you know if the barrel is threaded on the end, and if the carbon fiber silencer is glued on?

The end of the barrel is threaded. I have no problem changing moderators on my guns, so I guess that someone has glued the moderator onto yours.

[darryl]

The end of the barrel is threaded. I have no problem changing moderators on my guns, so I guess that someone has glued the moderator onto yours.

thanks for the info, Kieth. I admit I have not tried to force the base to turn. Since my new sample is right from the box, I don't think anyone outside the factory glued the moderator in place. Maybe the factory did. I thought I read that somewhere.
Darryl
PS thanks for the useful info about the difference in calibers. No .177s are offered here.

[DCL_dave]

The end of the barrel is threaded. I have no problem changing moderators on my guns, so I guess that someone has glued the moderator onto yours.

thanks for the info, Kieth. I admit I have not tried to force the base to turn. Since my new sample is right from the box, I don't think anyone outside the factory glued the moderator in place. Maybe the factory did. I thought I read that somewhere.
Darryl
PS thanks for the useful info about the difference in calibers. No .177s are offered here.

Hi Darryl,

Glad you finally got your Phoenix sorted...Re. silencers, as Keith says, the end of the barrel is threaded (male 1/2" unf) I suspect if yours is glued on then it may have been done to make it a permanent fixture because of your laws?...not sure but aren't removable silencers illegal in USA? (or at least in some states?...)

[darryl]

Hi Darryl,

Glad you finally got your Phoenix sorted...Re. silencers, as Keith says, the end of the barrel is threaded (male 1/2" unf) I suspect if yours is glued on then it may have been done to make it a permanent fixture because of your laws?...not sure but aren't removable silencers illegal in USA? (or at least in some states?...)

Hi Dave,
silencers on airguns are governed by individual states, and the interpretations seem murky at best. removable silencers are a sensitive issue, but not so much for airguns, though custom silencer makers warn to check state and local laws. So far, no need for me to remove the base of this silencer or LDC as it is comically referred to in airgun speak (LDC = lead dust collector). Truthfully, I'm more concerned with the ever more powerful, large bore airguns being produced. .308s .357, .45s. Some crazy will do something awful, and cause a public furor. Here, we all dread that event happening because of the consequences law-abiding airgunners might incur.

Meanwhile, I made an interesting discovery on this second (replacement)Phoenix. The first sample had the hammer spring tension-adjustment bolt cut flush with the retaining nut and glued for tamper-proofing (serial number 00178). The one I have now (serial number 00038) has the complete bolt, and a grub screw on the side to hold the adjustment setting. This grub screw has a bit of red glue as a tamper-proof indicator, and it turned easily enough. So I tweaked the power by turning the bolt one full turn. Just for giggles and grins (and maybe a slightly more flat trajectory at distance. Of course I should check the results, but I don't expect a very noticeable change.

BTW, does anyone know the mechanical difference between this non-FAC carbine version and the FAC version aside from maybe a longer barrel? Is it merely the diameter of the transfer port's orifice? I can't find any information on a FAC Phoenix. Yes. I'm a tinkerer.
Darryl