Greener air Rifle.

**Fronteria** · 28-02-2014, 03:35 PM

What is a Greener Air Rifle requiring restoration Worth?
I have been offered the one I have listed the defects from a visual inspection, I was not allowed to strip it for further inspection.
Somebody has taken barrel/breech cam mechanism apart and put it together wrongly so it doesn't work, it will cock and shoot but I don't think it has enough power to blow a cobweb out of the barrel.
No original finish anywhere on the metal parts but I couldn't see any rust or pitting on it.
Stock has been stripped and smells of stain and I suspect it has a crack in the head of the stock.
It appears to be complete including all of its sights.
Calibre .177
It doesn't appear that any of the parts have been damaged by the person who took it apart and tried to put it back together again wrongly, but you can never be sure until you have stripped, cleaned and inspected it, so this needs to be allowed for.
Sorry I couldn't get any photographs as I was not expecting to be offered a air rifle to purchase so I didn't take a camera.

**AC99** · 28-02-2014, 03:59 PM

I paid about £400 I think for mine about 3 years ago and it wasn't in brilliant condition but it was complete and in good working order with a minor crack in stock and it shoots well and a lot of original finish left but I wanted to own one so I was prepared to pay. They do not often come up for sale.
It seems this one you are looking at has been tampered with; I wonder what damage has been caused by stripping - screw heads etc; also why would anyone feel the need to take it apart if it was working? You would need to spend some time and money restoring it but make him an offer of £250 or so bearing in mind it isn't working and potential damage is unknown. Does he know anything about Greeners and their potential worth?

**Fronteria** · 28-02-2014, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by AC99

I paid about £400 I think for mine about 3 years ago and it wasn't in brilliant condition but it was complete and in good working order with a minor crack in stock and it shoots well and a lot of original finish left but I wanted to own one so I was prepared to pay. They do not often come up for sale.
It seems this one you are looking at has been tampered with; I wonder what damage has been caused by stripping - screw heads etc; also why would anyone feel the need to take it apart if it was working? You would need to spend some time and money restoring it but make him an offer of £250 or so bearing in mind it isn't working and potential damage is unknown. Does he know anything about Greeners and their potential worth?

As far as I know he is a total amateur which is a bit of a worry the screw heads don't appear to be too badly beat up, are any replacement parts available for Greener air rifles?
I just feel that the breech cam system might have had a fair bit of force applied to it, is anything in that area likely to break?

**AC99** · 04-03-2014, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by Fronteria

As far as I know he is a total amateur which is a bit of a worry the screw heads don't appear to be too badly beat up, are any replacement parts available for Greener air rifles?
I just feel that the breech cam system might have had a fair bit of force applied to it, is anything in that area likely to break?

Greener parts, like the rifles, are quite rare and it is unlikely you will find anyone who is breaking one for spares. John Knibbs and others only seem to make spare parts for Webley, BSA and other popular brands. Even if you could identify which parts are missing/damaged you would need to provide parts drawings to whoever is prepared to attempt making bits for you and this would prove to be very difficult since I don't think these drawings are easy to find.
Perhaps whoever took it apart discovered the rifle was not performing properly and decided to try and 'fix' it. I cannot think of anything in that region which could easily be broken since the rifle is very robustly constructed but, however, he may have lost a part or parts. I think you need to be wary and if possible try and examine it more closely and then make a decision.

**Fronteria** · 04-03-2014, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by AC99

Greener parts, like the rifles, are quite rare and it is unlikely you will find anyone who is breaking one for spares. John Knibbs and others only seem to make spare parts for Webley, BSA and other popular brands. Even if you could identify which parts are missing/damaged you would need to provide parts drawings to whoever is prepared to attempt making bits for you and this would prove to be very difficult since I don't think these drawings are easy to find.
Perhaps whoever took it apart discovered the rifle was not performing properly and decided to try and 'fix' it. I cannot think of anything in that region which could easily be broken since the rifle is very robustly constructed but, however, he may have lost a part or parts. I think you need to be wary and if possible try and examine it more closely and then make a decision.

One of the cams was broken into four bits! on a closer look it was found that when the lever was removed it has broken through all four corners of the square in the cam, which enables the cam to be turned when the lever is moved to close the breech, force had been applied which caused the incorrectly assembled cam to break up.
A rare quality air rifle is probably a write off.
And I can't see anyone buying it at the price it was offer at, as getting the breech cam parts made is sure to be expensive.

**Josie & John** · 04-03-2014, 05:45 PM

Originally Posted by Fronteria

One of the cams was broken into four bits! on a closer look it was found that when the lever was removed it has broken through all four corners of the square in the cam, which enables the cam to be turned when the lever is moved to close the breech, force had been applied which caused the incorrectly assembled cam to break up.
A rare quality air rifle is probably a write off.
And I can't see anyone buying it at the price it was offer at, as getting the breech cam parts made is sure to be expensive.

I'd hate to see such a classic written off and if the price of the repair is factored into the sale, then she may still be of use to someone. The damage sounds quite bad but I am no engineer and perhaps someone capable of repairing it could provide an estimate? Got to be worth a go.

John

**battyone** · 04-03-2014, 05:56 PM

Anything can be repaired or remade if it is unobtainium.
I've welded up ejectors for my brother in law on a couple of ancient winchester 50 cal rifles, when he couldn't get a replacement that worked.
It took loads of fiddly grinding to reshape after tiging, but they worked fine.

I've built up brass cams on clay throwers and all sorts of silly bits and pieces that weren't available or stupidly expensive.
If it helps his shooting club going it's all good.

If the pieces of the cam are still there,if it can't be repaired by welding at least it can be copied.

However if they want whole money for a broken rarity then everyone's screwed

It'll be a shame if a Greener is consigned to a skip!!!

If I can be of any help just give me a shout.

Nigel

**ashf9999** · 04-03-2014, 08:16 PM

As Nigel says, things can always be made....assuming you have an original pattern to copy from. If the cam is sheared, then something like laser welding can certainly rescue it. If it has been chewed up, then a careful study of the remaining bits may assist the manufacture of a new part. I guess if one has access to machine/mill the bits as required oneself then that's great. To approach an engineer (assuming they'd need to draw up the component as well) to make it could be prohibitively expensive. However, I wouldn't scrap it as you never know...

**Fronteria** · 04-03-2014, 09:11 PM

Originally Posted by ashf9999

As Nigel says, things can always be made....assuming you have an original pattern to copy from. If the cam is sheared, then something like laser welding can certainly rescue it. If it has been chewed up, then a careful study of the remaining bits may assist the manufacture of a new part. I guess if one has access to machine/mill the bits as required oneself then that's great. To approach an engineer (assuming they'd need to draw up the component as well) to make it could be prohibitively expensive. However, I wouldn't scrap it as you never know...

I never purchased it as the asking price was £550 which I think is what one in very good condition would be valued at.

**ashf9999** · 04-03-2014, 09:16 PM

I meant worth holding on to if I was in the position of the owner. Totally agree that given the damage it is certainly overpriced at £550

**battyone** · 04-03-2014, 09:26 PM

I make things for the fun of it.If I can fix something that isn't supposed to be fixed I'm a happy bunny.
I've been a tinkerer for as long as I've been able.
I have a mill, lathe, ac/dc tig and more importantly these tools don't have to pay their way. It's just nice if/when they do.

Seriously if I can help resurrect a piece of Birmingham history I will. And not at machine shop costs.

**battyone** · 05-03-2014, 07:04 AM

A couple of good pics and some info here. http://www.birminghamgunmuseum.com/m...rgun_World.pdf

**Josie & John** · 05-03-2014, 05:58 PM

Originally Posted by Fronteria

I never purchased it as the asking price was £550 which I think is what one in very good condition would be valued at.

I'm not surprised at that price

Is the seller aware the damage considerably devalues the rifle?

John

**battyone** · 05-03-2014, 07:06 PM

I found 2 for sale - might have been 3- while looking for info.
All £1100 ish

**ashf9999** · 05-03-2014, 10:33 PM

Originally Posted by battyone

I found 2 for sale - might have been 3- while looking for info.
All £1100 ish

I fear you don't mean all 3 for £1100....
Shocking

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