the best way to get rid of pitting on a project rifle

**T 20** · 13-02-2014, 09:20 PM

Originally Posted by 18 Wheeler

Once you've removed the worst of the pitting, you can save a lot of time an elbow grease by using a simple polishing kit which attaches to a regular electric drill.

Caswell's have a handy downloadable polishing guide on their website. I fixed the drill to a workbench and then move the piece over the appropriate wheel. After all the hard work with papers this is the fun bit!

I bought one of these when doing the FWB 150, £10 well spent, especially if you intend doing other rifles. It was in a similar condition to your Falcon, and needed the 80 grit treatment to start with then through the grades and finished with the polishing kit. End result.

Hi Nick

I actually have a great big three phase polishing mop like this one : -

http://www.williamsons-oldham.co.uk/...r_polisher.php

but I didn't use it on any of the parts I've fume blued as the chap in this video says that 320 grit is all that is needed for Slow Rust Bluing which is very close to Fume Bluing:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuP4m6L95K4

I do go further than 320 grit before bluing as my final finish is done with red Scotchbrite pads but I've never gone to a mirror finish before my first rusting.

All the best Mick

**valboskie** · 13-02-2014, 10:04 PM

Originally Posted by Phil Russell

For cutting thick leather I often clamp the leather between 2 bits of hardboard or plywood and use a hole saw in an electric drill. Or: cut out as best you can with a sharp knife/scissors. Remember to allow plenty of size so that the finished cup washer is OK. Remember you can always trim the outside down if too deep. I would normally add about 1" to the piston diameter.
Once I have a leather disc, I treat it with a shoe leather stretching liquid (iso-propyl alcohol) which makes it pliable. Or soak a day or two in neatsfoot oil. Then fasten disc to end of piston using the original fixing parts (bolt, screww, washer etc). Now get a jubilee clip that is a loose fit on the piston body. Feed the leather disc into the clip and tighten it a bit to begin forming a cup. Keep tightening at intervals until the jubilee clip is tight around the piston body. You may have to move it a bit now and then to keep the disc central. Once at the 'clip tight' stage it is best to leave it soaking in neatsfoot overnight. When ready, you may need to trim the outer edge a bit but remember that when compressed, the outer edge will move back to give a flat bottomed cup so do not overdo it. Try the piston and seal for fit. If too tight, carefully reduce outer diameter of the cup with something like 240 grit (cleaning after!) or even a few strokes of a file or put piston assembly in a lathe and trim a bit of leather off the cup. Aim for a good sliding fit.
Breech seal can be a bit more fiddly to cut. I usually use a set of wad cutters ... about £6 a set from tool stalls. I cannot remember the exact measurement for a Falcon but many rifles are 12mm outer diam and 8mm inner. If your leather is not thick enough, just add a card or steel shim under the washer. I have also cut discs from plastic tubing (e.g. home brew tubing) and it works well.

Happy shooting.
Cheers, Phil

Thank you phil
This is the first leather washer I have ever seen.
I will source some leather a friend offered some tool leather so I will check the thickness.

Would soaking the original seal bring it back to a usable state.
I'm not sure what to look for.
Cheers
David

**Blackrider** · 13-02-2014, 11:03 PM

Originally Posted by davymole

was given a tip by our local RFD as to the best way to remove old bluing was Brown sauce (any brand) and vinegar (I Laughted)

but it worked as its still acid and was cheaper,as for the cleaner/degreaser the wifes nail polish remover and her face pads as wipes hardly cost ME anything

tried it yesterday and it worked great but less brown sauce on the eggs in the future seen what it did to the action

I also have used valve grinding paste finish off with the fine you can still get the double ended tins today,I used to it recrown a barrel over the weekend turned out fine

Would also agree with the BROWN SAUCE method but only use that "Houses of Parliament brand" as it Handles Pitting !

**thisisdonald** · 14-02-2014, 05:54 AM

Originally Posted by T 20

Hi Nick

I actually have a great big three phase polishing mop but I didn't use it on any of the parts I've fume blued as the chap in this video says that 320 grit is all that is needed for Slow Rust Bluing which is very close to Fume Bluing:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuP4m6L95K4

I do go further than 320 grit before bluing as my final finish is done with red Scotchbrite pads but I've never gone to a mirror finish before my first rusting.

All the best Mick

I wonder if this is where I went wrong - I went right up to 800 then a final pass with some 1000?
I also used 36% hydrochloric acid. I figured it would reduce rusting times - didnt even work!

**T 20** · 14-02-2014, 07:34 PM

Originally Posted by thisisdonald

I wonder if this is where I went wrong - I went right up to 800 then a final pass with some 1000?
I also used 36% hydrochloric acid. I figured it would reduce rusting times - didnt even work!

Hi Donald

I doubt if your metal finish had anything to do with your piece not rusting.

There are a few things that could have stopped your piece rusting : -

Was the piece absolutely clean with no oil on it, as any small amount of oil will stop rust forming.

Was the air damp where you had your set up --- damp air will lower the amount of acid fumes in the air.

Was the place you had your set up cold, as this slows the acid fumes being given off.

Was your acid in a small container giving a small surface area --- the bigger the surface area the more fumes you get.

As I don't know all the answers myself I have been having a bit of a play today with my expensive, newly finished, heated fume cabinet

: -

http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/...2032012545.jpg

The reliable forming of the rust is the difficult part at this time of year so I had a little experiment with another liquid which I know will rust metal.
I have rubbed this liquid on to a second test piece to see if it works --- best of all this liquid costs nothing and most folks can get it fresh everyday.

I'll let you know how it works out.

All the best Mick

**thisisdonald** · 14-02-2014, 07:42 PM

Originally Posted by T 20

The reliable forming of the rust is the difficult part at this time of year so I had a little experiment with another liquid which I know will rust metal.
I have rubbed this liquid on to a second test piece to see if it works --- best of all this liquid costs nothing and most folks can get it fresh everyday.

I'll let you know how it works out.

All the best Mick

😃 I think youre taking this bathroom themed rust bluing a little far there mick.. 🚽!!! Still... if it works ill try it! My friends say im full of that liquid!

**Rickenbacker** · 14-02-2014, 07:50 PM

Is it wee?

**T 20** · 15-02-2014, 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by Rickenbacker

Is it wee?

Yes Phil.

Nice fresh wee, but so far no rust.

Even using my heated cabinet I can't get acid fumes to rust a test piece --- the best result I have achieved in this damp weather is by rubbing brick cleaning acid onto the test piece and then hanging the piece in the damp air.

I may be better off putting water in the heated cabinet to create a damp box and then put the piece in this after wiping with acid.

Another liquid I'm trying as a rusting agent is plumbing flux as this seems to attack steel when wiped on it.

All the best Mick

**thisisdonald** · 15-02-2014, 10:15 PM

Maybe try a few more beers with some salt n vinegar crisps next time!

**valboskie** · 18-02-2014, 12:10 AM

**oliver13** · 18-02-2014, 12:49 AM

Originally Posted by vbull

Is there a difference between emery paper and normal B&Q type papers if so what is it ?

Emery, which is Corundum, which is Aluminium Oxide is generally for metal - but it can do wood or plastic if needed.
It can be waterproof i.e. Wet & Dry - the water helps with the products cutting action.

B&Q type papers - I assume you mean Glass Paper? are for wood & are a lot weaker, they are crushed glass powder stuck to paper - it's a long time since sand paper was actually made with sand.
In theory you could use it to finish metal, polish out pitting etc. but you would get through an immense amount compared to Emery, & you couldn't use it wet.

If B&Q do an Emery Paper, Wet & Dry etc. then it will probably be as competitve with any other brand of Emery Paper as anything else that B&Q does.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emery_%28mineral%29

**Rickenbacker** · 18-02-2014, 01:49 AM

Originally Posted by T 20

Yes Phil.

Nice fresh wee, but so far no rust.

[...]

Hiya Mick

I guess you can't get the American bluing solution over here, but have you tried anything like 'Gunguard Slow Blue Solution'?

About a third the way down the page here:

http://www.blackleyandson.com/acatal...tals.html#a112

ATB - Phil

**thisisdonald** · 18-02-2014, 06:22 AM

Ill bet thats the nitric/hydrochoric/iron mixture you wipe on.

heres just one recipe I found:
300cc nitric acid
240cc hydrochloric acid
1200cc distilled water
Slowly add the acid to the water stirring constantly in a three litre beaker. When mixed, place the beaker in a larger vessel and pack the outside of the beaker with ice. Add cast iron chips until no more reaction takes place. Remove the beaker and let warm to ambient temperature and add more chips. When no more bubbles are formed, the solution is complete. You now have a muddy mess but this will change. Pour the liquid into a gallon brown glass jug and set aside. After a couple of weeks, the solids in suspension will have settled out and a clear yellowish liquid will remain. Carefully pour the clear liquid into brown bottles until the bottom material in the gallon jug starts to move. Discard the rest. This mixture is cheap to make and will keep forever. Also, there is enough for several hundred guns.Good luck.

David F. Fiola
- Godfrey, Illinois, USA....

I might whip up a batch of this to see how it works.
a simple google for rust blue formula will return loads of interesting stuff. I think, like Mick, Ill be trying a few different solutions, methods and variables this summer to see what works best for me.... Im still blown away by micks 'its a bit rusty' thread. Ive pored over that about a dozen times... really enjoyable read and great results.

**valboskie** · 18-02-2014, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by 18 Wheeler

Once you've removed the worst of the pitting, you can save a lot of time an elbow grease by using a simple polishing kit which attaches to a regular electric drill.

Caswell's have a handy downloadable polishing guide on their website. I fixed the drill to a workbench and then move the piece over the appropriate wheel. After all the hard work with papers this is the fun bit!

I bought one of these when doing the FWB 150, £10 well spent, especially if you intend doing other rifles. It was in a similar condition to your Falcon, and needed the 80 grit treatment to start with then through the grades and finished with the polishing kit. End result.

You're results are phenomenal mate .
That looks better than factory. Im still struggling to get the pitting out I've done the 80 grit
I used a file on the worst bits but it cut deeper than some of the pitting.
It is a learning curve. I have another rifle to do in worse condition so I want to learn what I can with this one.

Did you use the polishing kit to get rid of the pitting or was all the pitting gone before you started polishing.
My update photos look better than the action in the flesh I thought id be further on to be honest
Sanding is so boaring lol
I was thinking of buying a grinding wheel and buying some polishing mops for it
To save a bit of labour but im not sure if it will work.
Has anyone tried this method to get the pitting out.
Atb
David

**valboskie** · 18-02-2014, 10:51 AM

Donald does the metal work have to be perfect for this method or will it cover
Some pitt marks like the rust bluing.
Atb
David

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