Webley Air Pistol Batch Numbers

[Fronteria]

Would you care to add yours to the list? The more we record the more chance we have of identifying a matched pair or "batch" of Webleys.

John[/QUOTE]

Hi. John
I have a few more but I don't have the numbers at hand.

Junior
J5438

Mk1
61893

MK11 Target
33228

Webley Serior
122 (Purchase dat 15/02/1964)
940

[Leonardj]

Great idea John.
I have a few to add:

Mark I:
49
115
162

Senior:
19
374
625
632
1009
1620
3160

Premier:
44 (E) 1/0
70 (A) 3/5
156 (F) 1/0
275 (B) 2/6
329 (D) 3/7
689 (C) 7/6
1295 (B) 11/5

Premier Mk II:
669
928

Junior:
35
431
711
991
1428
2268

Junior Mk II:
426

[Abasmajor]

Hello John,

My post-war Webley batch numbers are as follows:

Mk1: 607

Senior: (B4): 184

Premier 'A' Series: 881

Premier 'B' Series: 202

Junior (B4): 198

Junior (B4): 1521

Junior: 680

I also have a couple of Mk2 Juniors and another Mk1 kicking around somewhere which I will dig out when I can remember where they are buried !

I will also make a note and advise any batch numbers I come across during my future, usually expensive travels to arms fairs, gun shops etc.

Regards

Brian

[hyscore100]

I also have Premiers

16
100
205

[CHJF177]

Here are mine John :-

Juniors

010
46
135
362
920

Junior mk2

346

Mk1

680
859
1053

Seniors

421
961
891
1124

Premiers

217
410
536
816
913
1720
1944

The Mk1 680 was purchased new by me in the summer of 1963 and does not have a 4 suffix to the address

ATB Chris.

[daveh]

Hi John,
Herewith my contribution:-
Junior -331
Mk1 -107
Senior -651
Regards
Daveh

[Josie & John]

Having just updated the "master" list, I'm starting to think this is rather like doing the bingo

We have 2 consecutively numbered Mk1s and 2 Juniors to-date.

Thanks Troubledshooter for reminding me you know of another Junior numbered 1 as well as your own. I'd like to say I vaguely remember our conversation but truth is I can't recollect it - memory was never much good! Pics and details of both pistols would be useful.

I wonder if we ought to concentrate on the Webley Premier, as after all these pistols are date coded mostly (under the grip) and have code letters. Can I therefore ask those who have already kindly provided details of Premiers to confirm Series codes at this stage. No need for dates just yet unless you have them to hand.

Thanks again to all who have contributed so far.

John

[Troubledshooter]

I've now listed Type and Date Codes to my list of Premiers.

[Anchorman]

Hi John
Seniors

423
703
Dave

[Josie & John]

Gentlemen, we appear to have a match.

Troubledshooter and I both have Premiers with a batch no of 808.

David,
By N/C and N/L, do you mean No Code and No Letter? If you do, then my 808 is also undated with no letter. It is a blued 5 pin Premier from C.1970/71.

If both follow this pattern, it adds weight to the theory that batches of pistols shared the same number.

Thanks again to all who have contributed.

John

[palmerclassic]

Hi here is mine
premier 77 (B)
mk 1 938
senior 831
junior 598

[AC99]

Hi John - a few more for your list:
Junior: 173, 2208
Mk1: 035, 673, 2013
Senior: 317, 1528
Premier: 143, 522

[Troubledshooter]

I received the following interesting observations from John Atkins, with permission to post them on this thread:



Notes re. Webley Air Pistol �Batch� Numbers

It's always good and interesting to pool, record and share information, but as far as Webley & Scott air pistol 'batch' numbers go, I'm unsure what real practical value a database of them is for dating undated specimens. During his research, Jeff Hyder dated pistols purely on known design changes as noted on helpful blueprints - rather than by batch numbers.

However, the highest numbers recorded do show that during one particular year at least that number of models was produced. But which year? Unless mis-stamped, those in a 'batch' will not all share the same number - or we'd see hundreds all bearing the same numbers. Any duplicate numbers found on pistols will be from other 'batches' made in different years.

'Webman' is quite correct in saying that the number signified the particular pistol within a batch and as each pistol in the batch was assembled, it was given a consecutive number and he sums it up well, by saying that: 'the number isn't actually a batch number, but the number of the gun made within a particular batch'.

In other words, they are actually a 'serial number' within a 'batch'. Any duplicate production numbers encountered on pistols will be from different 'batches' with numbers starting from '1' all over again. For instance, Dr. Mark Newcomer (who wrote three great early articles on Webley Air Pistols in 'Guns Review') owned two Webley 'Seniors' both with the same 'batch' number - but they were not from the same batch of pistols, of course.

It's a real shame that Jeff Hyder's proposed book on Webley air pistols never saw the light of day, because this is explained in his chapters using information supplied by Webley. Talking to Jeff recently about this, he gave Mark 1 a/pistols as an example (up to 1,000 - 2,000 per year). Take the four years 1959/60 and 1961/62, for instance - when around 1,500 Mark 1 a/pistols on average were made per annum with numbers running from 1-1,500 each year for the home market, plus 800 for export - i.e. Total average 2,300 Mark 1's per year over those four years. (It is unknown how the export numbers were numbered in relation to the pistols to be sold in the UK).

Looking at the same years for last batches of post-war Senior model pistols (1959, �60, �61 and �62) Jeff�s records show that about 3,000 pistols per year were manufactured for the home market and about 800 for export. Between January and July, 1963, 1,193 were made for home consumption and 476 for export in those first six months of that year.


Inside Webley, we also seem to have had a 'batch within a batch' situation. Some 20 years back, Jeff informed me that the pistol body, barrel and small components were held as stock in the 'finished' components stores. When the pistol components were required for assembly, they would be requisitioned by an Assembly Foreman and would be placed in a purpose-built tray with ten separate compartments. Ten of these wooden trays would be called a 'batch' and these �batches� would be taken into the Assembly Shop to be hand assembled 'in the white' (bare metal components) by 'Actioners'. These 100 pistols called a �batch� in the works only, are not to be confused with the main batch numbers stamped on the pistols, of which they were just a part.

Once completed and working, they would be stripped down and again be placed in the wooden trays to go to the polishing shop. From there, they would go to the Machine Shop to have the inscriptions and patent numbers rolled lengthwise along the body by a hand-powered tool. After roll marking, the trays containing the pistol components would be taken to the Blacking Shop. They would be all wired up with fine wire for blueing to keep them together. On return, the bodies, barrels and small parts would be thoroughly cleaned of all blacking chemicals and re-assembled. The person who initially assembled these pistols in the white, usually stamped a letter or mark on the body (usually on the butt or above the trigger) to make sure the right tray came back to him for assembly.

Jeff was presented with one of these wooden trays when visiting Webley and I have requested a photograph and dimensions of it, to pass on to anyone interested, when he has time to dig it out.

The Actioners had different marks to identify the pistols they had made up. Long ago, Mr. Pat. G. Whatley of Webley & Scott informed Jeff that the pistols he personally assembled were marked with a centre punch dot. This centre 'pop' was his mark to identify his own assembly work.

This was the procedure according to first-hand sources. I've extracted this info. from Jeff's drafts with his permission. Any revisions or amendments will always be welcome from other past Webley workers and their relatives not already interviewed by Jeff. He and I, hope this account will be of some interest. John Atkins

[xxlethxx]

Junior
760
Junior mk11
91
Premier
532
Premier mk11
131

All for sale....

[todaystheday]

can i put my name on the list as i own the webley senior No.407