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Thread: Webley Air Pistol Batch Numbers

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by webman View Post
    Just a thought. I've always assumed that the number signified the particular gun made in a batch. For example, you could have a batch of say 3000 gun bodies, and as each one in the batch was assembled, it was given a consecutive number. Is this how other collectors see things? In this case, the number isn't actually a batch number, but the number of the gun made in a particular batch.
    Hi Webman,

    You raise a very interesting point. There are two schools of thought around Batch/Assembly numbers.

    1/ Consecutive numbering of all pistols within a batch and then start again from the beginning.
    2/ A certain number of pistols made together as part of one batch and all sharing the same number.

    Chris Thrale identified the use of the 1st explanation above with some Mk3 air rifles but production within this serial number range was around 10,000, so quite a large batch and the higher numbers are way higher than any seen on Webley air pistols.

    Dennis Hiller seemed to favour the 2nd explanation when he said he had never seen the same batch number stamped on more than one pistol. As for me, well I honestly don't know. The first explanation is the more logical and one of the reasons for starting this thread is to see exactly what is out there. Let's see if we can identify two identical pistols that may have been part of the same batch.

    Keep 'em coming!

    John

  2. #17
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    Having just updated the "master" list, I'm starting to think this is rather like doing the bingo

    We have 2 consecutively numbered Mk1s and 2 Juniors to-date.

    Thanks Troubledshooter for reminding me you know of another Junior numbered 1 as well as your own. I'd like to say I vaguely remember our conversation but truth is I can't recollect it - memory was never much good! Pics and details of both pistols would be useful.

    I wonder if we ought to concentrate on the Webley Premier, as after all these pistols are date coded mostly (under the grip) and have code letters. Can I therefore ask those who have already kindly provided details of Premiers to confirm Series codes at this stage. No need for dates just yet unless you have them to hand.

    Thanks again to all who have contributed so far.

    John

  3. #18
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    Premier series codes added to my earlier post.
    Last edited by Leonardj; 11-03-2014 at 04:26 AM.

  4. #19
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    This surely will go down in history as"the great Webley mystery"!

    Acres and acres have been written about Webley & Scott but it seems their postwar numeric system is still a mystery. Best call in the Bletchley girls!!

  5. #20
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    I've now listed Type and Date Codes to my list of Premiers.

  6. #21
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    Hi John
    Seniors

    423
    703
    Dave

  7. #22
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    Gentlemen, we appear to have a match.

    Troubledshooter and I both have Premiers with a batch no of 808.

    David,
    By N/C and N/L, do you mean No Code and No Letter? If you do, then my 808 is also undated with no letter. It is a blued 5 pin Premier from C.1970/71.

    If both follow this pattern, it adds weight to the theory that batches of pistols shared the same number.

    Thanks again to all who have contributed.

    John

  8. #23
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    Premier Mk II and Junior Mk II info added to my post on pg 1.

  9. #24
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    Heres mine

    Webley junior
    1 402 prewar tin plate
    2 165 Post war
    3 493 Post war
    4 536 Post war Nickel
    5 710 Post war
    6 732 Post war
    7 860 Post war
    8 1330 Post war
    9 1362 Post war
    Webley junior Mk2
    10 473 Post war

    Mk 1 Straight grip
    11 3005 Prewar
    12 8161 Prewar
    13 8486 Prewar
    14 31942 Prewar
    15 31739 Prewar Target

    Mk1 Slant
    16 58
    17 270
    18 319
    19 321
    20 770
    21 784
    22 874
    23 1295
    24 65416

    Senior
    25 637
    26 742
    27 1856
    28 1198
    29 2039
    30 S10754
    31 S1151
    32 S10269
    33 S10862

    Premier
    34 E 4
    35 E56
    36 E 477
    37 E 623
    38 E1273
    Premier Mk2
    39 382
    40 474

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Josie & John View Post
    David,
    By N/C and N/L, do you mean No Code and No Letter? If you do, then my 808 is also undated with no letter. It is a blued 5 pin Premier from C.1970/71. John
    My .22 Premier No:808 is a boxed, blued, five pin model with no type letter and no date codes, in the last Brown/Cream Label type of Premier box.
    Check your loft, John.

    We already have another match with the two Junior No:1's.

  11. #26
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    Post-war ones in cabinet are as follows, mostly boxed. If I'm brave enough to go in the roof and face the spiders I'll update this soon with the others.

    Premier

    E series suncorite/expoy (can't remember which, haven't looked it back up) 535, date stamped June 74
    E series blue 5 pin 108
    D series blue 5 pin 1504
    E series blue 5 pin 873

    Premier Mk11

    962. Trigger shape dating it 1976 onwards

    MK1

    Blue, 4 pin (no postal district) 707

    Junior

    Suncorite finish 588
    Blue, extended grip 314
    Blue, later grip 901

    Junior MK11

    Standard, 909

    Senior

    131
    534/584 (Middle digit a bit unclear)
    322
    355 plated

  12. #27
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    Thanks for latest updates.

    Interesting to see both the Juniors marked "1" have fixed sights and appear to be early variations - thanks Troubledshooter. I'll await further detail if you can obtain it on the pistol which belongs to your friend.

    Ormicron,
    Can you confirm the date code from under the grip of your E Series Premier marked 477 as it looks like another match?

    For those who have kindly provided Premier batch numbers, can I ask for your Series Code letters to be added along with date codes from under the grips if at all possible? Series codes are more important as I appreciate it may be inconvenient to remove grips just to check.

    Reading through my old notes, I have had a blued Junior through my hands marked 332 and coded B. Dennis Hiller mentions a Junior marked 332 on page 205 of the 3rd edition of his book, although Dennis's description refers to a coated pistol coded A. Unlikely to be the same batch due to different finish but not impossible?

    I have a feeling this thread has asked more questions than it has solved but between us, we have identified up to 4 potential matches in just a few days.

    John

  13. #28
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    Weesp, Netherlands
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    Any more?

    Yes, a pair from Holland but both bought separately in Sweden: Mk1 188 and Senior 684
    A good initiative that might shed some light on a topic that leaves me clueless sofar.
    Regards, Mike

  14. #29
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    I have Senior B'ham 4 batch 730 and a Premier "D" series, but no idea where it is.
    Vintage Airguns Gallery
    ..Above link posted with permission from Gareth W-B
    In British slang an anorak is a person who has a very strong interest in niche subjects.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garvin View Post
    I have Senior B'ham 4 batch 730 and a Premier "D" series, but no idea where it is.
    You're worse than me Garvin I need to look for a Premier to double check something but have lost that too. Details of the D would be nice if you find it as the interesting thing with Premiers is they are date coded, so that may tell us a little more about the logic behind these numbers.

    Kind regards,

    John

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