Taming the HW80 my way

[wonky donky]

I've seen a few posts/threads of late about keeping the power down on this mighty beast & getting a decent firing cycle. Questions vary from how much weight to remove from the piston to which spring to use.

we all know how Venom did it with the Lazerglided 80 & it's well known Bigtoe01 did a similar thing by sleeving the 80's 30mm cylider down to 25mm, he went that extra mile & fitted a Walther LGV rotating piston & altered the trigger latch sear to accommodate the Walther piston rod. For those that have yet to read Tony's blog your missing out, do a search on here for Bigtoe01 & you will find a link on his profile.

TonyL has always said how he liked my short stroke modified 80 ever since shooting it at last years springer bash, whilst tidying my workshop today I came across a project I had been working on & had entirely forgotten about, it had been left to the dark corners invaded by spiders.

Where is my 80 I wondered, I remembered it was in bits but where? An hour or so searching & I had everything to hand, a quick piccy or two to show you what I had done some time ago.

I machined the standard piston along it's length on the lathe & then machined two more slots in the mill 12mm wide equal distances from the cocking slot.

Delrin was used to make buttons for the piston skirt & alloy short stroke nose. Complete the finished item was heavier than I wanted, ugly too. but then again 30mm diameter & 68mm of stroke is quite a bit of air to shift through a 3.6mm transfer port.

I used the standard spring 3.6wire 23o/d but it was easy to cock & shot like a dream. This configuration would give around 10/11fpe in .177, mine is .22 & was a little hot still.


Anyway onwards & upwards the project, I had forgotten I was working on a rotating drop in piston with the intention of using the standard HW latch sear.....Now thinking back I may have stopped working on it because I was told two of our most eminent tuners said it couldn't be done, Errm!

Well the piston was made, a bit heavy but here it is the weight is due to the latch rod at 112gms it's not a light weight!

All it needs is a rear bearing making Snap it on Get one of my 3.2wire 35.5 coils 260f/l springs, top hat & guide & put it together.

This is the rifle FULLY COCKED It cocks as normal rather than have quite a bit of play prior to contacting the piston.

How does it shoot, well the stroke on this version is only 60mm, 12fpe is no problem at all, makes it with loads to spare. It shoots like a dream, so quiet too, I'm amazed myself with this one so lord only knows what TonyL would think because it's miles better than when he last shot it. Quick but not snappy, no lag or hint of laziness. Is it as good as a 80 Lazerglide? No! it's so much better it's in a bifferent league, truly!

OK so it's .22 what would it be like in .177 I here you ask, well I can tell you, a quick route round to find my 95k with the 310 barrel, a quick change over a tin of JSB Exact over the chrono 10fpe & stunning to shoot. I have a HW55T I shot bell target with last week, the 80 is quieter, smoother, easier to cock & has miles less recoil.......am I happy I'll say! Yes Pete I know........that makes a change eh?

Let me tell you, forget upping the power on a HW55.........Detune & tame an 80, I promise you won't regret it, it's the way to go.

Is it finished NO!

[maz001471]

Thank you for that brilliant info , and can i ask you if you are going to the springer bash and if you can bring this along for us to enjoy ??.
cheers Maz.

[Shed tuner]

Thanks WD, great write up.

So the lesson here seems to be that (very) short strokes in large diameter cylinders do work, but need heavy pistons ?

I may revisit my sirocco that we'd spoken about previously - .177, 31mm bore, I short stroked to 61mm but only got 9 FP - maybe I should add some mass to that piston....

Anyone else looking for to the springer bash even more now ?

[Craig-P]

Brilliant stuff! Thanks for sharing, Dave.

Cheers, Craig

[landymick]

As above, an informative read & one i would like to try at some time.Well done.

[gibboj]

hi wonky done much the same tune on my 80 but with buttons and a longer / softer spring [its got a big bespoke piston linner so the spring is held tight] still thinking off taking a bit of weight of the piston ? but it feels nice as it is ,wots your thoughts on light pistons wonky. also short stroked a smk xs20 [95 clone] made a delrin head for that one ,that on a 26mm piston. that shoots well but not had none of them down since short stroking to see how thay are wearing on the heads, id love to shoot a lazerglide or one of your or bigtoe tunes to see how mine compears and see wot all the fuss is all about
atb john

[prosport.177]

Hi wonky,
Good job, just noticed the latch rod has a button on the end, not the usual hw slot.
Have you made piston rotary and modded the trigger sear?

[wonky donky]

Thank you for that brilliant info , and can i ask you if you are going to the springer bash and if you can bring this along for us to enjoy ??.
cheers Maz.

I hope to Maz

Thanks WD, great write up.

So the lesson here seems to be that (very) short strokes in large diameter cylinders do work, but need heavy pistons ?

I may revisit my sirocco that we'd spoken about previously - .177, 31mm bore, I short stroked to 61mm but only got 9 FP - maybe I should add some mass to that piston....

Anyone else looking for to the springer bash even more now ?

Jon I used lots of pre-load to try to counteract any piston bounce, I'm going to redesign the piston now because as it is I'm not in the springs sweet spot. When I did the original conversion for last years springer bash I used the heavy standard spring to counter act bounce & a lot less pre-load.

hi wonky done much the same tune on my 80 but with buttons and a longer / softer spring [its got a big bespoke piston linner so the spring is held tight] still thinking off taking a bit of weight of the piston ? but it feels nice as it is ,wots your thoughts on light pistons wonky. also short stroked a smk xs20 [95 clone] made a delrin head for that one ,that on a 26mm piston. that shoots well but not had none of them down since short stroking to see how thay are wearing on the heads, id love to shoot a lazerglide or one of your or bigtoe tunes to see how mine compears and see wot all the fuss is all about
atb john

Hello John, I do lighten my pistons on the 95, 77/97 & short stroke them using an alloy head. This is the last 97 piston i did this week that's 30gms lighter with the short stroke, bearings & seal than a bare standard piston. If you don't mind me saying delrin is not the material to use for piston noses, it will fail in time. Delrin is a good bearing material but doesn't take shock too well.

Generally I short stroke 77/97 in .177 by 8mm, 95's by 12mm, .22's shorter. My own 25mm HW77 in .22 is 68mm with an "O" ring conversion.

Thanks for your comments guys.

I have a couple of .20 HW's to do, a 95 & a nice Green Laminate 77 as well as 2 TX's the later 3 being my own rifles that I hope to bring to the springer bash together with a Diana 280 in .177 & a HW99s that I did the anti gall fix on myself, in a different way to Tinbum! Think I might put some pics up on a new thread of that?

[wonky donky]

Hi wonky,
Good job, just noticed the latch rod has a button on the end, not the usual hw slot.
Have you made piston rotary and modded the trigger sear?

Yes it's a rotary piston Charlie.

[TonyL]

Dave, me VERY excited and giddy now....Can't wait to see and feel this beast, if I may...and all of those other toys detailed!

Knackered a little for time just now and got to log off, but the OP is brilliant and also some of the further posts added.

EXCELLENT THREAD, will look in later.

[look no hands]

Dave, me VERY excited and giddy now....Can't wait to see and feel this beast, if I may...and all of those other toys detailed!

Knackered a little for time just now and got to log off, but the OP is brilliant and also some of the further posts added.

EXCELLENT THREAD, will look in later.

Bloody hell Tony, you took your time sniffing this thread out

Pete

[davidif]

I have a couple of .20 HW's to do, a 95 & a nice Green Laminate 77 as well as 2 TX's the later 3 being my own rifles that I hope to bring to the springer bash together with a Diana 280 in .177 & a HW99s that I did the anti gall fix on myself, in a different way to Tinbum! Think I might put some pics up on a new thread of that?


Look forward to seeing the anti gall fix on the 99s

ATB Dave

[TonyL]

Bloody hell Tony, you took your time sniffing this thread out

Pete

Time, mate. Rather, lack of!

Plus grief off the missus...Wanted to get to the club this morning, but told that I don't spend enough time with the family and shirking my commitments!

Logging off again.

[tinbum]

I've never taken the latch rod out before. How is it held in? I'd like to try short-stroking this way rather than adding length to the piston.

[look no hands]

Time, mate. Rather, lack of!

Plus grief off the missus...Wanted to get to the club this morning, but told that I don't spend enough time with the family and shirking my commitments!

Logging off again.

I know what you mean mate, it is a real problem if you have a family as well, I remember reading some of your old posts about how many days at work you do and the lack of weekends you have at home.

ATB and take care.

Pete