Heavy Pellets - this is getting silly

[Biker_Bob]

A mate gave me a pot of "Big Boy" 22 pellets.
These are very long and weigh 22.6gn
I've not tested them at range yet, but since they're pointed I wouldn't expect too much.
The thing is, in my Ultra they chrono a full 1.1 ftlb higher than its normal diet of AA Diablo which way 16gn
The implications are obvious.
Isn't it time that the law was updated to mandate a limit of 12ftlbs with a certain weight of pellet?
If the the Police started using these (unlikely I know), then most people's guns would chrono over the limit.
What if someone starts making a 30gn pellet?

[tinbum]

What if someone starts making a 30gn pellet?

They do! Eley Magnums are 30grn and as much use as a chocolate fire guard.

[airgunnut]

There called piledrivers

[slugger]

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?sa=X&...tart=0&ndsp=19



your welcome

[bigtoe01]

A long while back on the forum i posted we should have fixed weights of pellets available freely for each calibre, anything under or over these set weights would carry an FAC only clause so you get them when you produce it face to face.

I was told to shut up.

The reason for me suggesting this was I tested some Daystate Rangemaster heavies in my R10, these were 16gr .177 I seem to remember and they pushed my R10 that does 11.2 with JSB heavies/bismags to 14.5fpe...lucky for me I know a lad who does beta testing for Daystate and he brought this fact to their attention after we shot the same pellet thru one of his daystate HFT rifles (again massively over)

The boys at Key Forensics in Warrington love heavy pellets, and they are the people who test the rifles when seized.

Food for thought...I will again now shut up.

[223AI]

The issue with a set weight is that for different rifles different weights will be the most efficient, it is not always the heaviest, for example my old S410 would shoot 16 grain AA pellets at 11.5 ft-lb, yet 21 grain pellets produced only around 10.1. The greater inertia of the heavier pellets lowered the power in that particular gun.

So if the test was standardised to use bismags for example my S410 could have been tuned up to 11.8 with these, but with the AA field it would have been at 14+.

Equally spring guns tend to be more efficient with light to mid weight pellets so testing them with a standard heavy pellet would mean they would be even further over the 12 ft-lb mark.

So in essence to set power testing with a standard weighted pellet it would introduce a variable power limit if you see what I mean? As the power would vary with other pellets.

Perhaps, as suggested above there should be an upper limit, with any heavier pellets only being available for FAC holders, at least then people would know what range of weights to check their guns with and would be protected from new pellets coming on to the market!

Just to highlight that heavier isn't always most efficient my FAC S10 produces 29.8 ft-lb with 16 grain field domed, 31.5 with the 18 grain version, 32 with bis mags and only 28.5 with 30 grain piled drivers (which are horribly inaccurate)

[airgunnut]

3 standardised pellets (light, medium and heavy) a average would be taken from all 3 only then will you get a reliable reading that's fair to all air guns

[fatboab]

To my (admittedly) limited knowledge if you were under 12fpe with Bisley magnums for pcp/co2 you were ok by law,with a springer it's the lighter pellets that tend to get you in bother.Atb

Bob

[lionel]

If your rifle is seized and tested by Key Forensics, higher readings from heavy pellets will be the least of your worries. Unless things have radically changed since the Crown vs AWT case about three years ago, the forensic team will do exactly what they want to your rifle to ensure it goes over the limit. This can include dismantling it and removing components. I would have called this tampering with evidence but the court obviously saw things differently and the prosecution's case was successful.

[223AI]

3 standardised pellets (light, medium and heavy) a average would be taken from all 3 only then will you get a reliable reading that's fair to all air guns

But if you worked on an average then potentially 1 (or even 2 if 1 was massively lower) of the pellets could develop more than 12 ft-lb so you're back to a variable limit . . .

[airgunnut]

But if you worked on an average then potentially 1 (or even 2 if 1 was massively lower) of the pellets could develop more than 12 ft-lb so you're back to a variable limit . . .

thats the point eg say for the light pellet it was 11.2 fp, for the medium it was 11.8 fp, for the heavy it was 12.5 fp you get an average of 11.83 fp. you would have used a standardised set of light medium and heavy pellets to get a true reading for all air guns, spring and pcp alike so if the result of this test with 3 standardised pellets is over 12 fp then your in trouble, so for pcp you set the gun with heavy pellets, for a springer light pellets, this is a test for law as you cannot have 1 pellet to test springers and another to test pcp (most coppers are clueless about ballistics and airgun)

[223AI]

thats the point eg say for the light pellet it was 11.2 fp, for the medium it was 11.8 fp, for the heavy it was 12.5 fp you get an average of 11.83 fp. you would have used a standardised set of light medium and heavy pellets to get a true reading for all air guns, spring and pcp alike so if the result of this test with 3 standardised pellets is over 12 fp then your in trouble, so for pcp you set the gun with heavy pellets, for a springer light pellets, this is a test for law as you cannot have 1 pellet to test springers and another to test pcp (most coppers are clueless about ballistics and airgun)

If you're saying the gun fails if any one of the 3 are over then its a fail i see where you are coming from, if you are saying use the average then you are really introducing a variable limit.

Even then the most efficient weight in one pcp will be different in another as pellet fit and barrel length come in to play. At the moment the rules are simple 12 ft-lb is the limit for any air rifle with any pellet.

A standard set just won't reflect what the gun is capable with all the pellets out there and potentially guns could be over with a pellet somewhere in between say the middle and heaviest pellet, it would just complicate matters (or enable people to legally own guns capable of greater than 12 ft-lb off ticket, but that just won't happen).

The more I think about it an upper limit for pellets bought off ticket might be a way to simplify things but then that takes our choice away!

[Biker_Bob]

A long while back on the forum i posted we should have fixed weights of pellets available freely for each calibre, anything under or over these set weights would carry an FAC only clause so you get them when you produce it face to face.

I was told to shut up.

The reason for me suggesting this was I tested some Daystate Rangemaster heavies in my R10, these were 16gr .177 I seem to remember and they pushed my R10 that does 11.2 with JSB heavies/bismags to 14.5fpe...lucky for me I know a lad who does beta testing for Daystate and he brought this fact to their attention after we shot the same pellet thru one of his daystate HFT rifles (again massively over)

The boys at Key Forensics in Warrington love heavy pellets, and they are the people who test the rifles when seized.

Food for thought...I will again now shut up.

Thanks for this - that's what I was worried about.

[HW100/90]

I know using logic these days is frowned upon, but if for whatever reason your rifle(s) were seized by the police for testing, the definitive power levels should be gained by only testing the pellets you own and use, wouldn't it?
My Hornet is set to fire Bis Mags at 11.6ft/lbs, all other pellets I own are under this, so I would (like to think) if my rifle was tested it would be okay. I sure as hell won't be setting the power up using a super heavyweight pile driving magnum eliminator death pellet, which are obviously made for FAC rifles...

Maybe even pellet manufacturers could help out, put on the tins/packets for these ultra heavy pellets that they are suitable for FAC rifles only....again common sense but we don't appear to be allowed to excercise such thoughts any more


Just my thoughts
Mark

[MrGreengrass]

I know using logic these days is frowned upon, but if for whatever reason your rifle(s) were seized by the police for testing, the definitive power levels should be gained by only testing the pellets you own and use, wouldn't it?
My Hornet is set to fire Bis Mags at 11.6ft/lbs, all other pellets I own are under this, so I would (like to think) if my rifle was tested it would be okay. I sure as hell won't be setting the power up using a super heavyweight pile driving magnum eliminator death pellet, which are obviously made for FAC rifles...

Maybe even pellet manufacturers could help out, put on the tins/packets for these ultra heavy pellets that they are suitable for FAC rifles only....again common sense but we don't appear to be allowed to excercise such thoughts any more


Just my thoughts
Mark

H/N have the joule have the joule rating on the tin....or at least the new ones do.