What's in a trigger?

[drjeep38]

Following on from my other thread seeking advice on upgrading my pistol and from speaking with a few people the one thing everyone seems to agree on is that the trigger will be where I'll see the most difference from my current Rohm and where the greatest benefit will be seen. Now this may be a daft question but what exactly should I be looking for in a trigger and what difference can I expect to see, or will it be so obvious that I won't fail to see the improvements, and are the likes of the Walthers/Steyr's similar in their triggers or do even these top end pistols differ?

Any pointers in this minefield are much appreciated.

[Rutty]

A trigger must be consistent and it should be mechanically (or electronically) reliable. If it doesn't meet these criteria then proceed no further. Next are the physical parameters, it must be capable of positioning and adjustment so that your finger will rest on it consistently at the correct point and angle. An otherwise perfect trigger that could not be positioned far enough back (or forward) to reach it would be of little value.

Next there is the release point' this must be absolutely crisp and clean with no "creep", i.e. you should not be able to discern or feel any movement once the 1st stage has been taken up until sufficient pressure is applied to fire the pistol (or rifle). Needless to say this characteristic should be constant over the range of release weights that the trigger unit may be adjusted to accommodate. Consistency is vital here, if you have set the weight to 501g it is essential that it does not vary (I would use 510-520g myself).

The available adjustments must be adequate to meet your personal requirements:

1st Stage weight
2nd Stage or release weight
Single stage option
1st Stage length
Over travel after release

These adjustment should be simple to make and altering one parameter should not affect another - sadly that is not always the case.

Modern target air pistols are quite remarkable pieces of engineering. They are one of the very few items of sporting equipment that you can purchase with a very high degree of confidence that straight out of the box it is good enough to win the Olympics. All you need to do is your bit!

All the triggers from the major manufacturers; FWB, Steyr, Walther, Morini, Benneli etc.; fulfil these criteria to a greater or lesser extent. However they all have slightly different nuances that can make them feel quite different. This is particularly so of the electronic triggers, they are excellent but it is a case of love them or loathe them. In all this is a highly subjective area, I have seen people buy a new pistol and set the trigger up exactly as the old one and then complain that it doesn't feel the same.

Hope that this helps.

Rutty

[drjeep38]

Many thanks for such a prompt and detailed response rutty, this has been a real eye opener and is a world away from my current adjustment possibilities which equate to moving the whole trigger backwards/forwards. I can now start looking around with a lot more confidence and with attention to the details.

[mrgeoff]

My Rohm was the double action type, so in single action it was very heavy, and only single stage, the hammer on the Rohm makes the shot jump too much.

I felt the 2 stage triggers on a few pistols before I bought the Walther, and they were all amazing in comparison to the Rohm.


Cheers.

[Fierynick]

Rutty is absolutely spot on with what he has said about triggers. I currently shoot a Morini, and love the electronic trigger, the 'break point' of the trigger is amazing, no creep at all, it just breaks cleanly and releases the shot.....sometimes in the ten-ring! Electronic triggers can leave the shooter feeling 'detached' from the shot release, and purists would argue this case enthusiastically.

Two-stage triggers are definitely the triggers to have for precision, whilst rollover triggers tend to be favoured by Rapid Fire shooters, the rollover allowing pressure to be continually applied until the shot release, rather than taking up a first stage and then breaking through a second stage.

-Nick-

[drjeep38]

Terrific info folks, thanks very much. It certainly sounds like I'll notice the difference straight away even with my clumsy erratic skills.

Without getting into a debate on the pro/cons of electronic triggers as I guess this is very personal what is the idea behind them from a technical perspective. Is it purely just that there is zero creep on the second stage? From the few top end pistols I've managed to try in the past I must admit I didn't notice any creep in any of them but that's most likely back to my clumsy approach!

Thanks again guys.

[mikec4]

Rutty is absolutely spot on with what he has said about triggers. I currently shoot a Morini, and love the electronic trigger, the 'break point' of the trigger is amazing, no creep at all, it just breaks cleanly and releases the shot.....sometimes in the ten-ring! Electronic triggers can leave the shooter feeling 'detached' from the shot release, and purists would argue this case enthusiastically.

Two-stage triggers are definitely the triggers to have for precision.
-Nick-

Another agreement with this comment - the Morini is really crisp and consistent. The mechanical trigger of the SAM K11 I own is almost equivalent and benefits from the multi mode adjustability of position, angle etc mentioned by Rutty.

Walther, Benelli, Steyr, Pardini and Feinwerkbau match pistols all demonstrate the same or similar quality of trigger - it then becomes a matter of personal "feel" for the pistol. Try as many as you can if at all possible. You really need to visit or join a club with an active 10m section.

Going back to your 1st post, our club boasts 2 Hammerli AP20's neither of which are problematical and benefit from light weight and balance. Worth a try in my opinion if only to eliminate from your list of possibles.

Good luck with your quest!

[RobinC]

Excelent post from Rutty, it really answers most of the questions.

I'd only add, trigger set up on all the top makes as they are supplied from the factory is a base safe setting done on the production line, I hear so many people slag off a make when all it needs is a finite adjustment. Trigger adjustment is also close to an art form, it requires a very fine feel and understanding of what needs adjusting, some are good at it, others are crap, do not judge any trigger until it has been set up by some one who is good at it.
Weight, it has to consistantly lift a 500 gm weight, when hot, cold, from the box and after its been used, any top level shot will not have their trigger set to the line of 500/501 gm, a good tip is to put a £ coin on the weight when you set up.
Electronic triggers have a distinct advantage in feel, they feel different. When a mechanical trigger is at the point of break it has weight against the sears holding them on that point, when it breaks that weight is released,and the triggers felt weight is reduced, its like leaning against an open door, thats why we use a trigger backstop. With a free trigger such as on a free pistol or a match rifle that is not felt so back stops are not used. A 500 gm electronic trigger is the same, the release of the sear weight is not felt, the break is a micro switch and the weight before and after the break is the same, this is why an electronic trigger is advantagious as it can reduce the movement of the pistol at trigger break.
Personal preference yes, but there is also a distinct advantage.
Good shooting
Robin

[drjeep38]

Many thanks Robin, really useful info there.

Cheers

[nige346]

The difference compared to the Rohm will be obvious, When I moved on from my Twinmaster the FWB 80 trigger was a revelation even though the pistol was much older, As already mentioned though they do require setting up correctly to you personal preference taking into account the minimum allowed pull weight.

Following on from my other thread seeking advice on upgrading my pistol and from speaking with a few people the one thing everyone seems to agree on is that the trigger will be where I'll see the most difference from my current Rohm and where the greatest benefit will be seen. Now this may be a daft question but what exactly should I be looking for in a trigger and what difference can I expect to see, or will it be so obvious that I won't fail to see the improvements, and are the likes of the Walthers/Steyr's similar in their triggers or do even these top end pistols differ?

Any pointers in this minefield are much appreciated.