Alan Westlake Alfa 357 Mag Revolver

[arsefactor]

To illustrate the problem I've just photographed the difference in primer seating.
Same batch of primers, I find about 2/3rds are OK and the other 1/3rd sit just proud. All were Remington 209's.

"fat" rim primer sitting proud : http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps77bbb929.jpg

"thin" primer sitting flush : http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps0c49d4bc.jpg

Yes, that's enough to make the cylinder bind. The "fat" primers work great in my Remington 1858 nitro conversion though so they still get used.

[pete.s]

Hi all. Well I got my Westlake Alfa on Friday last week. I had managed to get some herco as well. so am going to try it out tomorrow
starting with a 3grn powder load. cci primer and Mr Westlakes own brand hbwc
looking forward to seeing where they go.

[Frag Muppet]

Hi all. Well I got my Westlake Alfa on Friday last week. I had managed to get some herco as well. so am going to try it out tomorrow
starting with a 3grn powder load. cci primer and Mr Westlakes own brand hbwc
looking forward to seeing where they go.

Let me know how you get on with Herco

Thinking of swapping to this when my Blue Dot runs out as was Alan's first powder choice.

I think Alan recommended 3.5gn with Herco let us know your findings.

Are you using Alan's bullets?

Stu

[DaveC]

I have just collected my Alfa. Not had a chance to try it yet, could not get any Herco any ware, nor could I get any Blue Dot, but Alan recommended I use Green Dot as it's a bit fast burning and I have the 4" revolver.

I got 2 boxes of Alan bullets and another 10 boxes on there way direct form the chap that makes them. I also have some of my own cast (Lee 148G 358 WC) that I need to size to 357, just waiting for the sizer to arrive, so will be testing them out as well.

Dave

[dannywayoflife]

Dave I tried some of the shell house bullet co 158's and I found them easier to seat than Alan's bullets(they were 358) they ran no problem at all

[mag44uk]

If you guys get stuck getting HBWC I have 2000 privvi.
Also a load of other 38 bullets which I will shortly list in for sale section.
You could try using something like Vectan A1 which is close to green dot.
You could probably get some from Folkstone engineering in Kent.
Tony

[DaveC]

At last I got out to shoot my Alfa.

I have the 4 inch version and two cylinders, using Alan’s bullets and green dot, Alan said green dot would be better for a shorter barrel as it has a faster burn rate.

I loaded up a big pile of small glass vials with 2.4 grains of green dot, I tried some laboratory plastic ones but the static seemed to hold on to half the powder and would not tip out cleanly. The other method that Alan uses, is to use 38spl cases, bell the end and plug with the bullet. I found some of the powder sticks to the bottom of the bullet because of the sticky lube, the bullet was hard to pull out and when you tipped the powder out more powder stuck to the rim of the case again because of the sticky lube. I found on “that auction site” a bag of 1ml perfume sample bottles, I think they were about £10 for 100 shipped from Poland (bay 221620712690, you need to cut the little stalks off), took a few days to arrive and are just the job. Got a big box of Remington 209 primers.

Free standing at 25 yards I think I may have been expecting a little too much for the first time out, I did get them all onto an A3 size bit of paper and by the end of the session most were hitting the 6 inch “shoot’n see” target I had stuck on there.

I got the feeling, but it could have been me in the over excitement, but there seemed to be a few flyers, I am going to up the load to 2.6 grains for the next session and see if that improves.

I found the tool that Alan supplied to get the primers out was not a good fit, but I just happened to have a tool on the bench, actually part of my fishing gear used as a baiting tool, that was perfect for the job. (bay 181546226802)

I was not expecting it to be quite so messy and have now included a cloth (old beer towel) as part of my kit to wipe down the front of the cylinder and included a pack of wet wipes for my fingers.

Had almost everyone at the club behind me watching for the first few shots, a lot of interest.

But oh wow, was it fun to shoot, hell yeah…! Nice grip, felt real good to hold and shoot. Now I got to wait another two weeks before I can use it again, in that time I hope the rest of the bullets I ordered from Alan turn up as I managed to get through a whole box..!

Cleaning, I put the cylinders in the ultrasonic batch for almost an hour, heated with sea clean, ok it got most of the muck off, but I noticed in the primer pockets still had quite a build-up of carbon and requited a bit of scraping to clean out, anyone found anything that will clean them completely?

Dave

[DaveC]

Another update.

Second time out with the Alfa, this time I had changed the charge from 2.4 grains of green dot to 2.6 grains, the groups were much better and very consistent, well about as consistent as you can get at 25 yards with a 4 inch barrel. But I am very happy with the 2.6 charge and will stick to that.

I also tried some of my own home cast bullets, these were cast from old roofing lead into a Lee 148 grain wadcutter. These were then sized using a Lee 357 sizer and then a little Allox. These fit very well into the cylinder, a little easier to push in then the original hollow base ones, but nice an tight on the last few mm when seated with the press. Results, well I could not tell any difference between these and the hollow base ones. I only put 24 through as that was all I had ready, but I will be making more.

Oh yes, I tried some KG1 cleaner, not bad, that and an old toothbrush does seem to get the cylinders quite clean.

Dave

[arsefactor]

Follow up on mine which appears to be working well now I size the primers.

Using 105gr swc home cast boolits (from scrap roofing lead, not range scrap) with Blue Dot powder is giving nice 4" groups freehand at 22 yards, seems consistent. Lubed with Alox, no excessive leading noted.
I'll do some more tests and load development with Herco powder soon now I've got a tub of the stuff.
I'm just glad it's finally shooting a full cylinder properly. Bloody primers!

[pete.s]

Let me know how you get on with Herco

Thinking of swapping to this when my Blue Dot runs out as was Alan's first powder choice.

I think Alan recommended 3.5gn with Herco let us know your findings.

Are you using Alan's bullets?

Stu

Stu. 3.5grn Herco is max . but yes I like the powder just wish you could find it at the moment. as getting Very low. but I can use any 38 special 148 grn wc powder and bullseye looks good think the max was 3.2 . jury is out on Mr Westlakes cast lead. I also have hornady lead as well and that seems to load slightly better. I will do a full check in two weeks and shoot two targets one with Westlake lead the other with hornady I use 2.7 gn powder and cci primers. it does seem to have one primer pocket that is harder to clear than the rest

[Nocrimp]

Hi all,
I also havce a 6" Alfa.

I'm shootinh 148gn H&N Hollw base wadcutters.
I can't find any Herco to test but I do have Blue Dot...
4.0 to 4.5gns of Blue Dot seems accuracte but I need to do more tests to see if there's a "sweet spot".

I also have some Unique... 3.5 gns seems to work but again I have to test some different loads and chrono.

Once tested, I will post my results in case anyone is interested.

Meanwhile, please let me know if anyone tracks down some Herco and also if there is any other powder that works well.

I have also worked on the trigger and action and the trigger pull on mine is now much better than when I got it.

I echo the problem re primers sitting proud and jamming the cylinder rotation.
Will need to look into this a bit further, as well as modifying the loading press to hold the cylinder centrally and also put the press on a larger board to aid the leverage.

Any other observations anyone?
All in all not a bad pistol... good fun and the nearest we can get to a "proper" revolver at the moment.

[arsefactor]

Can't remember if I've posted this before ...

I did a strip down and rebuild video for the Alfa ;

http://youtu.be/Vge4J7nbthk

Nocrimp - what work did you do on the trigger?

Cheers - Paul M.

[Frag Muppet]

Hi all,
I also havce a 6" Alfa.

I'm shootinh 148gn H&N Hollw base wadcutters.
I can't find any Herco to test but I do have Blue Dot...
4.0 to 4.5gns of Blue Dot seems accuracte but I need to do more tests to see if there's a "sweet spot".

I also have some Unique... 3.5 gns seems to work but again I have to test some different loads and chrono.

Once tested, I will post my results in case anyone is interested.

Meanwhile, please let me know if anyone tracks down some Herco and also if there is any other powder that works well.

I have also worked on the trigger and action and the trigger pull on mine is now much better than when I got it.

I echo the problem re primers sitting proud and jamming the cylinder rotation.
Will need to look into this a bit further, as well as modifying the loading press to hold the cylinder centrally and also put the press on a larger board to aid the leverage.

Any other observations anyone?
All in all not a bad pistol... good fun and the nearest we can get to a "proper" revolver at the moment.

I wouldn't go above 4gns of Blue Dot.

You will blow the skirt off the bottom of the Hollow Base wad cutter leaving it stuck at the bottom of the cylinder!

I know this because I did it myself had to use an easy out tool to extract the skirt without damaging the cylinder.

If you read all the posts on this topic you will see that others have also made the same mistake!

Stu

[Nocrimp]

Hi paul,

(Health Warning: obviously only touch the insides of a gun if you know what you are doing!)

On my Alfa, the work I did was:

Polish all internal parts (the hand and trigger block were very sticky)

Reduce mainspring tension by removing two coils

Bend trigger spring and adjust the eccentric screw tensioner to reduce trigger pull weight
(this is necessary as if you reduce mainspring tension without reducing the trigger weight, the trigger return is too strong once the sear trips in single action mode.

I also had to visit Alan Westlake as the double action sear was catching occasionally when firing single action resulting in an occasional light strike. A little stoning of the double action sear almost sorted the problem and after I did a little more, it solved it completely.

Also I replaced the front sight with a plain balck blade whoich I prefer for target shooting.

[pete.s]

How are you getting on with it now.

Have you sorted out the problem you had with it?


Just an update on the bullets I have tried.

I was sent some free samples to try from the "Shellhouse Bullet Co."
Some solid 148gn & some solid 125gn .358 Wad cutters
The 125gn would not fit in the cylinder
Some of the 148gn ones did, but where not as accurate as the Wad cutters I brought direct off Alan Westlake

I was looking at casting my own, so I sent one of Alans Wad cutters to Henry Krank with a view to buying a Lee Mould & Sizer.
They measured Alans Wad cutter & found it to be just under .357 (356.5 size)
The same as I had measured using my cheap callipers.

Would love to know what Mould Alans guy uses to cast the bullets as they shoot the best.
I am just concerned a little when the day comes that I can no longer purchase bullets direct from Alan.

The closest bullets I have seen to Alans are Hornady 148gn 38 Cal Hollow Base Wad Cutters.
Norman Clarkes should be able to get hold of these, don't know whether to give them a try or not.

Stuart

Hi. My Westlake Alfa shoots better with hornady hbwc than with the Westlake stuff. and i find it easier to load the cylinder. CCi primers can be a tad hard to remove the cause is i am told. Mr Westlake uses Remmington for a size setting and there a tad smaller than the CCi . i have been using 2.7 Herco but as my supply is running out i am working up a load with Bullseye at about 2.5gn if at rest i can get a 2" group so very happy . But i am thinking of going to NOI moulds in the states to get my own mould